Stevens and Ainge are finally getting it

[hpantazo]

as a fan of the team, and a fan of Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Stevens, Green, Bass, etc. as individuals, I would be ecstatic if we land a top 3 pick, and winning any of the last 5 games would bring no joy whatsoever, so I cannot understand why anyone is rooting for a win right now. It changes nothing for the current players, and only hurts the team long term. I honestly believe most of them have checked out mentally weeks ago. Does anyone believe Green, Rondo, Olynyk or anyone is really invested as an individual to win any of these remaining games?

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games. Its human nature.

[Rondo9]

It's about time.  Just swallow your pride everyone. You were great all season. No one can doubt your allegiance.  You stayed true all year.  You didn't root for tanking. Congratulations.

Back to the real world... We are just this close to a number 4 lottery position. Our team is very talented with a great coach and some real assets.

Would you like Wiggins?  Or embid?  You don't have to feel bad about being excited about those players.  You're still a Celtics fan.  And if you can't handle showing others that excitement, just quietly watch and smile, and knew that our team could be really good for a very long time.

  Hopefully the team will be really good for a very long time, although the thought that a top 4-5 draft pick somehow insures that is hopelessly naive.

Despite what West and Ainge have said this draft is worth tanking for. You have 4 legit superstar potential players and a few all stars at the top of the draft. Best overall crop since 2003. Complete the tank! Get the next superstar in here asap.

  It's not just what Danny's said. Most of the people who were proclaiming that this was a superstar-laden draft have been distancing themselves from those claims.

If that was the case then how come the Sixers Lakers Bucks and even the Celtics are putting on the biggest tank show since 2007? All smoke and mirrors. This class is 100% the real deal especially if Parker comes out.

In the Lakers and Bucks case, they tried to reach the playoffs but injuries got the better of them.

[hpantazo]

It's about time.  Just swallow your pride everyone. You were great all season. No one can doubt your allegiance.  You stayed true all year.  You didn't root for tanking. Congratulations.

Back to the real world... We are just this close to a number 4 lottery position. Our team is very talented with a great coach and some real assets.

Would you like Wiggins?  Or embid?  You don't have to feel bad about being excited about those players.  You're still a Celtics fan.  And if you can't handle showing others that excitement, just quietly watch and smile, and knew that our team could be really good for a very long time.

  Hopefully the team will be really good for a very long time, although the thought that a top 4-5 draft pick somehow insures that is hopelessly naive.

Despite what West and Ainge have said this draft is worth tanking for. You have 4 legit superstar potential players and a few all stars at the top of the draft. Best overall crop since 2003. Complete the tank! Get the next superstar in here asap.

  It's not just what Danny's said. Most of the people who were proclaiming that this was a superstar-laden draft have been distancing themselves from those claims.

If that was the case then how come the Sixers Lakers Bucks and even the Celtics are putting on the biggest tank show since 2007? All smoke and mirrors. This class is 100% the real deal especially if Parker comes out.

In the Lakers and Bucks case, they're trying to reach the playoffs but injuries got the better of them.

I hate to say it, but I agree. The lakers never planned on Kobe and Nash both missing the season, or Howard blowing them off for Houston. This was supposed to be a playoff team for them.

The Bucks are just a mess of an organization. I believe they legitimately try to win each year, they are just terrible at it from the GM and coaching perspectives.

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

[Celtics18]

as a fan of the team, and a fan of Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Stevens, Green, Bass, etc. as individuals, I would be ecstatic if we land a top 3 pick, and winning any of the last 5 games would bring no joy whatsoever, so I cannot understand why anyone is rooting for a win right now. It changes nothing for the current players, and only hurts the team long term. I honestly believe most of them have checked out mentally weeks ago. Does anyone believe Green, Rondo, Olynyk or anyone is really invested as an individual to win any of these remaining games?

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games. Its human nature.

I'm not asking for understanding.  It's becoming apparent that some simply will never understand my stance on the point of athletic competition being to try to win all the games you play, even when the odds are stacked against you.

I'm also not trying to change anyone else's minds about the 2013-2014 Celtics at this point.  But, I'm going to keep rooting for wins at the very real risk of many of you not understanding why. 

[SHAQATTACK]

It's about time.  Just swallow your pride everyone. You were great all season. No one can doubt your allegiance.  You stayed true all year.  You didn't root for tanking. Congratulations.

Back to the real world... We are just this close to a number 4 lottery position. Our team is very talented with a great coach and some real assets.

Would you like Wiggins?  Or embid?  You don't have to feel bad about being excited about those players.  You're still a Celtics fan.  And if you can't handle showing others that excitement, just quietly watch and smile, and knew that our team could be really good for a very long time.

  Hopefully the team will be really good for a very long time, although the thought that a top 4-5 draft pick somehow insures that is hopelessly naive.

Despite what West and Ainge have said this draft is worth tanking for. You have 4 legit superstar potential players and a few all stars at the top of the draft. Best overall crop since 2003. Complete the tank! Get the next superstar in here asap.

  It's not just what Danny's said. Most of the people who were proclaiming that this was a superstar-laden draft have been distancing themselves from those claims.

If that was the case then how come the Sixers Lakers Bucks and even the Celtics are putting on the biggest tank show since 2007? All smoke and mirrors. This class is 100% the real deal especially if Parker comes out.

In the Lakers and Bucks case, they're trying to reach the playoffs but injuries got the better of them.

I hate to say it, but I agree. The lakers never planned on Kobe and Nash both missing the season, or Howard blowing them off for Houston. This was supposed to be a playoff team for them.

The Bucks are just a mess of an organization. I believe they legitimately try to win each year, they are just terrible at it from the GM and coaching perspectives.

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

I'm crying every minute for the Lakers .......they deserve the top draft choice .   We should win every game to make sure their fans are not disappointed.

[BballTim]

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

  This might be somewhat true in the Celts case but what other option decent was available to them? Even if the Celt's own pick was guaranteed to be outside the top 10 and the team had no reason to tank for a draft pick, what could they have done with the roster that would be better for the franchise?

[hpantazo]

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

  This might be somewhat true in the Celts case but what other option decent was available to them? Even if the Celt's own pick was guaranteed to be outside the top 10 and the team had no reason to tank for a draft pick, what could they have done with the roster that would be better for the franchise?

oh, I agree, I am not arguing against their strategy in any way, it makes perfect sense

[hpantazo]

as a fan of the team, and a fan of Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Stevens, Green, Bass, etc. as individuals, I would be ecstatic if we land a top 3 pick, and winning any of the last 5 games would bring no joy whatsoever, so I cannot understand why anyone is rooting for a win right now. It changes nothing for the current players, and only hurts the team long term. I honestly believe most of them have checked out mentally weeks ago. Does anyone believe Green, Rondo, Olynyk or anyone is really invested as an individual to win any of these remaining games?

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games. Its human nature.

I'm not asking for understanding.  It's becoming apparent that some simply will never understand my stance on the point of athletic competition being to try to win all the games you play, even when the odds are stacked against you.

I'm also not trying to change anyone else's minds about the 2013-2014 Celtics at this point.  But, I'm going to keep rooting for wins at the very real risk of many of you not understanding why.

This makes no sense though. The odds are not stacked against them at this stage in the season, the season is over, mathematically they cannot make the playoffs.

It's like saying if your down by 25 with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter you should run your starters into the ground to finish out the game and they should dive for every lose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it. It is totally counter productive. A smart coach, GM, or player knows when it's best to pack it in and live to fight another day.

[Celtics18]

as a fan of the team, and a fan of Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Stevens, Green, Bass, etc. as individuals, I would be ecstatic if we land a top 3 pick, and winning any of the last 5 games would bring no joy whatsoever, so I cannot understand why anyone is rooting for a win right now. It changes nothing for the current players, and only hurts the team long term. I honestly believe most of them have checked out mentally weeks ago. Does anyone believe Green, Rondo, Olynyk or anyone is really invested as an individual to win any of these remaining games?

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games. Its human nature.

I'm not asking for understanding.  It's becoming apparent that some simply will never understand my stance on the point of athletic competition being to try to win all the games you play, even when the odds are stacked against you.

I'm also not trying to change anyone else's minds about the 2013-2014 Celtics at this point.  But, I'm going to keep rooting for wins at the very real risk of many of you not understanding why.

This makes no sense though. The odds are not stacked against them at this stage in the season, the season is over, mathematically they cannot make the playoffs.

It's like saying if your down by 25 with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter you should run your starters into the ground to finish out the game and they should dive for every lose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it. It is totally counter productive. A smart coach, GM, or player knows when it's best to pack it in and live to fight another day.

I don't think you should run your starters into the ground in the above scenario, but I do think the players who are on the court should absolutely "dive for every loose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it."  That's exactly the kind of basketball I want to see from the ragtag bunch of Celtics who are finishing out a painful 2013-2014 campaign. 

[slamtheking]

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

I'd throw Utah into that group as well.  Letting Big Al and Milsap go for nothing was definitely a move intended to make the team much worse

[Quetzalcoatl]

[/b]

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games.

I don't think you should run your starters into the ground in the above scenario, but I do think the players who are on the court should absolutely "dive for every loose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it."  That's exactly the kind of basketball I want to see from the ragtag bunch of Celtics who are finishing out a painful 2013-2014 campaign.

The Spurs are the best team in basketball right now and they only play hard like that in May and June.  They never beat their own players up and just play system basketball and they are one of the most successful sports franchises of the last 20 years.  If Duncan gets a night off, he doesn't become less competitive overall, because that has nothing to do with how good of a basketball player he is.  We just don't have a lot of talent on our team.  A legit center doesn't shrink from being 7 feet tall because he didn't dive for a loose ball in a regular season game.  A shooter's perfect mechanics don't fall apart because he only played 20 minutes in a meaningless game.  If you have talent, that stuff comes together.  It's not magic.

[Celtics18]

[/b]

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games.

I don't think you should run your starters into the ground in the above scenario, but I do think the players who are on the court should absolutely "dive for every loose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it."  That's exactly the kind of basketball I want to see from the ragtag bunch of Celtics who are finishing out a painful 2013-2014 campaign.

The Spurs are the best team in basketball right now and they only play hard like that in May and June.  They never beat their own players up and just play system basketball and they are one of the most successful sports franchises of the last 20 years.  If Duncan gets a night off, he doesn't become less competitive overall, because that has nothing to do with how good of a basketball player he is.  We just don't have a lot of talent on our team.  A legit center doesn't shrink from being 7 feet tall because he didn't dive for a loose ball in a regular season game.  A shooter's perfect mechanics don't fall apart because he only played 20 minutes in a meaningless game.  If you have talent, that stuff comes together.  It's not magic.

I don't disagree with much of what you've written here except for the bolded part.  The Spurs may rest their aging stars with regularity, but that team plays good, smart, effort-filled basketball on a nightly basis, and they play to win, whether their stars are in the lineup or not. 

I have never talked about "magic."  I've talked about wanting to see my team put the effort in to try to win games.  That's not "magic."  If we can't win any more games for the rest of the season, then so be it.  I don't want to see the guys I've rooted for all year pack it in and play to lose, though, regardless of the circumstances.   

[gar]

For the 100th time there is a difference between tanking and developing talent. So what if Sullinger is Jacking up threes. You can say that is tanking or you can say it is player development.
Whatever it is. They do get it. But I for one would not call it tanking.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

I'd throw Utah into that group as well.  Letting Big Al and Milsap go for nothing was definitely a move intended to make the team much worse

Or it's a move to clear way for Favors and Kanter, while maintaining maximum flexibility.

[Roy H.]

Only the Celtics and the Sixers purposefully put forth teams that were not intended to make the playoffs this year.

I'd throw Utah into that group as well.  Letting Big Al and Milsap go for nothing was definitely a move intended to make the team much worse

Or it's a move to clear way for Favors and Kanter, while maintaining maximum flexibility.

Sure it was, but the Jazz didn't really have any intention of making the playoffs.  I'd add several teams to that group beyond the Sixers, Celtics, and Jazz.  There were the Suns (oops), Bucks, and Magic, at minimum.  I'm willing to bet that none of those teams really expected to make the playoffs, and they didn't make moves with the present in mind.