if you're going to cheer for losses

[nickagneta]

I agree, pearljammer.  It is also hard to listen to others who hope for higher ping pong balls, when you really do not agree with the tank mentality.  I don't remember this wish for failure even during the lean years before KG/RA.  I remember still cheering for the team to improve and win.  I  remember some who were dead set against losing Al Jefferson (the future) and others at that time.  I also remember travelling to 2007 Las Vegas to cheer for rookies Big Baby Davis and (I think it was) Gabe Pruitt play.  Fun trip.  Now people are very vocal in their quest for the bottom...Is there another business that thinks the way to the top is to bottom out?

I have been angry with players (notably BBD) but I can never remember hoping for their failure while they were a member of the Celtics.

I feel the same way. Maybe the calls for tanking and hoping for losses are a generational thing brought along by the advent of a much larger presence of basketball blogs that allows for a very small vocal majority to expound their tanking thoughts and theories.

I just do not remember the amount of people calling for tanking even back in 2006-07. Most were not happy with the C's sitting Jefferson and Pierce at the end of that year to secure the number two spot. Most had a bit of an "I told you so" type attitude to the tankers when the C's ended up selecting 5th that year. Having been the second overt tank this team did to only lose out on the best players, most fans took it very hard.

I am kind of astounded given this team's past that so many on this site came out as so pro tank. All it has done is cause the Celtics heartache. Why go for 3 of 3 on tanking losses? You basically turn your back on your team for a year and cheer for losses and in the end, there is no guarantee of anything except a top ten pick which has proven to guarantee nothing, certainly not a great player. Every year, even deep talent years, many to most top 10 players become nothing, including those in the top 5.

[moiso]

Every year since the early 90's, whenever it became apparent that the Celtics weren't going to make the playoffs, I wanted them to lose as many games as possible the rest of the way.  I'm sure others felt this way; there just weren't blogs and as much internet activity to express our opinions.

[Mr October]

It's not that anybody [who is actually a fan] is 'cheering' for losses, it's that we just don't want to overplay veterans to grind out a win. Wins are pointless right now, which is why we should be seeing what we have in our younger players and working on plays/situations that may benefit us in the future. Why Olynyk only manages to play 21 mins (or less!) is beyond me. If ever there was a time to let this guy play until he can't walk...

I don't believe in giving mins to someone just give 'em mins. i'd rather see them earn it.

I agree with this. However, the primary player in question is Kelly Olynyk. I feel like he has outplayed Brandon Bass.

[Mr October]

When the Celtics have been devastated by injuries and devoid of talent,  i have been a pro-tanker. This year. 2006-07. 1997-98. I joined the blog at draft time in 2007, when the pitchforks and torches were being raised against Doc and Danny. It was a very negative time. I feel like this is actually a more positive time. There is more hope.

The NBA more so than any other sport is star driven when it comes to winning championships. And the easiest way to get a star talent is in the top of the draft. Players picked in the top 5 have a 50% chance of being an all star. That number increases when the draft is one of the better ones. Players in the 6-10 range have a 25% chance at being an all star. After that the percentage of success drops dramatically, and you only have a 50% of even finding a solid role player for a winning team throughout the rest of the first round. (I pulled my numbers from the 2003-2009 drafts, which included some excellent drafts and some terrible ones.)

On top of this, the lottery is heavily favored towards the worst 3-4 teams. I wish the scale would role back to a format that doesn't reward quite as heavily. Say 1 ball for the 14th worst team, 14 balls for the worst team, and so on.

The system is what it is. I don't like it. But when the Celtics have an opportunity, i want them to exploit it.

Yet i understand rooting for your team no matter what. In the end we are all Celtics fans and want to return to glorious days.

Go Celtics!

[nickagneta]

I feel like he has outplayed Brandon Bass.

And yet the coaching staff doesn't. Why?

My guess here is they see Bass staying late at practices. They see Bass giving 100% effort in every game and every practice. They see Bass hitting the weight room regularly and sticking to a proper diet. They see Bass acting like a pro.

So perhaps what they are doing is saying to Olynyk, ""want to play, be like this guy, act like this guy, emulate what he does and how he acts". I am not saying KO is a problem. Not at all. Its just young players don't usually have the work ethic, dedication, and attitude to do what you have to do to be ultra successful.

Olynyk is getting minutes and he plays a position the Celtics are loaded at, PF. He is a rookie. Make him pay his dues and let him change to be more like a professional like Humphries and Bass. When he plays well, play him more minutes. When he doesn't sit his but. He's a rookie. Part of the growing process is learning that you are never given anything. You have to work to take it. Since Olynyk hasn't taken that spot my guess is he isn't doing the kind of things behind the scenes that the coach and management want him too.

Notice Sully has been demoted as well. Clearly, at least IMO, a message is being sent to the young guys.

[clover]

I'm perfectly okay with messages for young guys.

I just wish KO wouldn't need it to be delivered so forcefully that Stevens couldn't squeeze in another 10 minutes per game of playing time for him.

[Mr October]

I feel like he has outplayed Brandon Bass.

And yet the coaching staff doesn't. Why?

My guess here is they see Bass staying late at practices. They see Bass giving 100% effort in every game and every practice. They see Bass hitting the weight room regularly and sticking to a proper diet. They see Bass acting like a pro.

So perhaps what they are doing is saying to Olynyk, ""want to play, be like this guy, act like this guy, emulate what he does and how he acts". I am not saying KO is a problem. Not at all. Its just young players don't usually have the work ethic, dedication, and attitude to do what you have to do to be ultra successful.

Olynyk is getting minutes and he plays a position the Celtics are loaded at, PF. He is a rookie. Make him pay his dues and let him change to be more like a professional like Humphries and Bass. When he plays well, play him more minutes. When he doesn't sit his but. He's a rookie. Part of the growing process is learning that you are never given anything. You have to work to take it. Since Olynyk hasn't taken that spot my guess is he isn't doing the kind of things behind the scenes that the coach and management want him too.

Notice Sully has been demoted as well. Clearly, at least IMO, a message is being sent to the young guys.

True about Bass's professionalism. He appears by all accounts to be a true pro, even though he doesn't have the talent of other starting 4s. There is absolutely something to be said for receiving too much too soon. Antoine Walker is perhaps our biggest example of that in recent years. He could have done more if he had more discipline.

Based on how Doc and Danny operated, and imagine Stevens operating, i agree that they want the young guys to earn it outside of game time as well.

In the end i am splitting hairs with Olynyk and Bass. The split is often 27 for Bass, 21 for Olynyk. I would flop that 6 minute difference. Thus i usually dont bring up anything about freeing Olynyk. All I am saying is that on the court he has earned his minutes.

[D.o.s.]

Free Colton

[Roy H.]

I just do not remember the amount of people calling for tanking even back in 2006-07. Most were not happy with the C's sitting Jefferson and Pierce at the end of that year to secure the number two spot.

I remember this a little differently.  I recall a lot of fans openly rooting for losses, just like this year.  It's one of the reasons I wasn't in a hurry to "blow it up"; I remembered what intentionally losing was like -- and what this blog was like -- and I wasn't a huge fan.

The only major difference I see between now and 2007 is that folks aren't calling for Stevens' head, despite his desire to win games and play the veterans.  Doc was criticized much, much more for this.  Maybe that's because we were farther into the rebuild and had more young guys with high potential.

But yeah...  regardless or not of whether losing is a necessary evil, watching the "sausage being made" of going from a quasi-contender into a lottery team has stunk.

[rickyfan3.0...]

Yeah I remember this MUCH differently. Tankapalooza was in full effect. We had an 18 game losing streak, and basically sat Paul Pierce for the season, and people seems alright with it.

I don't get where people get off telling other fans what to root for or not root for. Everywhere I look, I see 23 year old kids telling me that I'm not a true fan because I wanted them to 'blow it up' and I want them to be as bad as possible this year.

[cb8883]

I've been rooting hard for them to lose this year and will do so next year. It is for the good of the franchise. I don't think I could ever say Let's Go Kobe or Lets go Raptors at the Garden though. Every franchise has a down period. The Celtics will be longer than most especially when they wise up and deal Rondo.

[Rondo9]

I've been rooting hard for them to lose this year and will do so next year. It is for the good of the franchise. I don't think I could ever say Let's Go Kobe or Lets go Raptors at the Garden though. Every franchise has a down period. The Celtics will be longer than most especially when they wise up and deal Rondo.

I much rather keep Rondo and accelerate the rebuild.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Yeah I remember this MUCH differently. Tankapalooza was in full effect. We had an 18 game losing streak, and basically sat Paul Pierce for the season, and people seems alright with it.

I don't get where people get off telling other fans what to root for or not root for. Everywhere I look, I see 23 year old kids telling me that I'm not a true fan because I wanted them to 'blow it up' and I want them to be as bad as possible this year.

I was at that 18th game and it is one of my proudest memories.  I wholeheartedly supported tanking then too as a means to get assets and it worked perfectly.  During the down years, you just have to look at it as rooting for the front office as opposed to the actual players.

[Rondo9]

Cheer for who you like whether it's for wins or losses there's no "wrong" way to cheer, just don't criticize or call out others just because they have a different view of the Celtics future.

[BigAlTheFuture]

I was pretty young in 07. Rooted for the team to win even though it wouldn't be in the Celtics' best interest. Honestly thought the Rondo, Tony Allen, Paul Pierce, Big Al, Perk, Gerald Green , and Telfair group would be contenders eventually.

This year is a bit different. Our team isn't that good and we need a gamechanger. We don't have that yet.