Wow... Never seen Kevin Love so disappointed...

[D.o.s.]

Love is also overrated, in my estimation. Moreso than Rubio, who everyone kind of knows isn't all that great.

[action781]

Yep.  One of ESPN's stat guys, Kevin Pelton I believe, has Love ranked 3rd this year behind Durant and Lebron.  He says that with Love on the bench the Wolves are equivalent to the Sixers.

Rubio, Kevin Martin, and Pek are equivalent to the Sixers?

Pre-trades, maybe.  Post-trades, no way.

[indeedproceed]

Yep.  One of ESPN's stat guys, Kevin Pelton I believe, has Love ranked 3rd this year behind Durant and Lebron.  He says that with Love on the bench the Wolves are equivalent to the Sixers.

Rubio, Kevin Martin, and Pek are equivalent to the Sixers?

Pre-trades, maybe.  Post-trades, no way.

Truth. But, Kevin Love being overrated is a bit of a difficult thing to gauge in my opinion. I don't think there is a player in the league that offensively compliments a star better than Kevin Love (if you accept the condition that Lebron and Durant can't be considered complimentary pieces). The best outlet passer in basketball, elite rebounder, can score from anywhere. And his team's metrics back that up, if you don't count wins as a metric.

He might be the best 4 in basketball (again, if you don't count Lebron or Durant as 4s), trailing only LaMarcus Aldridge, and that's debatable. If his team were in the East, they'd be a 45 win team, minimum.

But as the primary star, with everyone else on his squad at least 2 tiers below him, he doesn't seem to have "it". I don't know really where to rank him. On par with the current Dwight probably.

[D.o.s.]

I don't think so -- Dwight's rebounded pretty well this year (as in healthwise), and KLove can't touch prime Dwight.

I think Love's a comparable talent to Serge Ibaka (vastly different skillsets, of course) -- who is far from a scrub, but not in the same conversation as a Dwight.

[colincb]

Love is also overrated, in my estimation. Moreso than Rubio, who everyone kind of knows isn't all that great.

It's not that Rubio isn't that great. He absolutely sucks.   Rubio is ranked 404th in offensive points per possession per SynergySports stats and 272nd in defenive PPP.   Rubio's defensive +/- is much better which is another nugget suggesting that +/- is crap. 

FWIW, Love is rated 21st best in offensive PPP and an above average 138th defensive PPP, which is better than I would have expected.

There have been 477 players with stats in the NBA this season so far.

[PhoSita]

I think Love's a comparable talent to Serge Ibaka (vastly different skillsets, of course) -- who is far from a scrub, but not in the same conversation as a Dwight.

I like Serge, and I tend to think that Kevin Love's numbers have been inflated the past few years by playing on a team with practically nobody else who's above average.

That said, Serge Ibaka is not on the same level in terms of talent or impact as Kevin Love.


Kevin Love is the 4th best individual scorer in the league behind LeBron, Durant, and Carmelo.  He's the best rebounder at the power forward position, and he's a good passer (especially outlet passes).   

Love is every bit as good as Dirk was during his MVP seasons, except he's a far better rebounder.  I think it's debatable how much talent Love has actually had around him the past few years; what I don't think is debatable is that the players around him have not complemented his strengths and weaknesses hardly at all.

[clover]

I think Love's a comparable talent to Serge Ibaka (vastly different skillsets, of course) -- who is far from a scrub, but not in the same conversation as a Dwight.

I like Serge, and I tend to think that Kevin Love's numbers have been inflated the past few years by playing on a team with practically nobody else who's above average.

That said, Serge Ibaka is not on the same level in terms of talent or impact as Kevin Love.


Kevin Love is the 4th best individual scorer in the league behind LeBron, Durant, and Carmelo.  He's the best rebounder at the power forward position, and he's a good passer (especially outlet passes).   

Love is every bit as good as Dirk was during his MVP seasons, except he's a far better rebounder.  I think it's debatable how much talent Love has actually had around him the past few years; what I don't think is debatable is that the players around him have not complemented his strengths and weaknesses hardly at all.

Love hasn't hit Dirk levels in 2PT%, 3PT%, TS%, PER, WS/48, eFG%, FT%, STLs, BKs, etc--but he is a clearly superior rebounder.

[moiso]

Yep.  One of ESPN's stat guys, Kevin Pelton I believe, has Love ranked 3rd this year behind Durant and Lebron.  He says that with Love on the bench the Wolves are equivalent to the Sixers.

Rubio, Kevin Martin, and Pek are equivalent to the Sixers?

Pre-trades, maybe.  Post-trades, no way.

Overall- in terms of point differential.  The Wolves without Love in the lineup have been like 15 points per game worse than their opposition- about the same as the Sixers have been all year.

[PhoSita]

Love hasn't hit Dirk levels in 2PT%, 3PT%, TS%, PER, WS/48, eFG%, FT%, STLs, BKs, etc--but he is a clearly superior rebounder.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=loveke01&y1=2014&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2007


What differences there are in shooting percentages and such -- other than free throws -- I think could easily be attributed to the disparity in talent around the two players.

In any case, I think it's safe to say that Love's play is very much on par with Dirk's MVP season.

[Fafnir]

I think Dirk was a better offensive centerpiece his MVP level season. Much easier to build an efficient and dangerous offense around his talents than Love's.

Of course Love probably makes up for that with all the possessions he creates for his team via his rebounding.

[D.o.s.]

I think Dirk was a better offensive centerpiece his MVP level season. Much easier to build an efficient and dangerous offense around his talents than Love's.

Of course Love probably makes up for that with all the possessions he creates for his team via his rebounding.

I agree with this.

[MBunge]

I think Love's a comparable talent to Serge Ibaka (vastly different skillsets, of course) -- who is far from a scrub, but not in the same conversation as a Dwight.

I like Serge, and I tend to think that Kevin Love's numbers have been inflated the past few years by playing on a team with practically nobody else who's above average.

That said, Serge Ibaka is not on the same level in terms of talent or impact as Kevin Love.


Kevin Love is the 4th best individual scorer in the league behind LeBron, Durant, and Carmelo.  He's the best rebounder at the power forward position, and he's a good passer (especially outlet passes).   

Love is every bit as good as Dirk was during his MVP seasons, except he's a far better rebounder.  I think it's debatable how much talent Love has actually had around him the past few years; what I don't think is debatable is that the players around him have not complemented his strengths and weaknesses hardly at all.

It's hard to think of Love at that level because his individual performance hasn't led to team wins.  Have the Twolves been that bad besides Love?  Has the West been that good?  If Love moves to the East, can he lead a team to the playoffs?  If he was on a better team, would his numbers decline enough that we'd all realize he's closer to David Lee than MVP?  For three of the last 4 seasons, Love has been healthy and putting up video game stats without really seeming to have much impact on winning or losing.

Mike

[CFAN38]

For all the Love detractors I think he would be a great fit in Boston. It isnt fair to compare him on both sides of the ball to KG and use his lack of defense to totally discredit him. KG is one if not the greatest PF ever to play basketball.


I actually see a lot of parallels between between Love and Charles Barkley.

Both
        elite rebounds
        elite offensive scoring production through unique offensive skill sets
        both lack ideal tools for position (charles height, Love athleticism)
              -these physical limitations hindered both defensively


I know the Chuck comp opens me up to the fact that Barkley was never able to win a ring and many predict the same for love. However with the right team I totally thing a team can win with Love and a main piece.

Love and Rondo are a great fit to start with. Both share the fact that they possess amazing positional strength but have glaring weaknesses. If paired in Boston DA's mission would be to cover these weaknesses with the rest of the roster.

Center:       110% needs to be elite rim protector, Chandler covered for Dirk in there championship run and Love will need the same. Pek is a great big but he and love are a less then ideal match because neither is a great rim protector.

SF/SG              Both wing players need to be at least capable outside shooters and versatile defenders. At least one of these two must be able to create his own shot. I think Green fits this profile. AB is on the fringe for me with this I think as long as the starting SG is a capable off the dribble scorer with decent size (able to play 2/3) then AB may be better suited to the 6th man role.

Bench           I like the following make up for a bench with 3 primary rotation players
                        combo guard - may be AB best role
                        4/5 big man - KO should develop into a great option
                        shooting 3 - knock down 3pt specialist

                    Deeper bench
                         large center - Iverson might me a nice cheap bench fill in
                         2/3 and D   - Chris Johnson is a nice cheap fit
                         scoring 1    - a player like Pierre Jackson is a great option

[D.o.s.]

I see what you're saying, but that's pretty much sacrilege.

Charles Barkley> Kevin Love.
http://bkref.com/tiny/S4MGR

[wdleehi]

I think if the Celtics can get Love without giving up Rondo, their first round pick if it is top 5 and any of the future Net picks, it is a slam dunk trade for them. 

They would need to find that C to go next to him,