Author Topic: Embiid injuries.  (Read 15687 times)

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Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2014, 11:44:17 AM »

Offline cman88

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sullinger part 2? drops down to the mid teens and we pick him up with our brooklyn/atlanta pick?!!

one can dream.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2014, 05:19:54 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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"Based on that, this weekend (in the Big 12 Championship) is out," Self said in a statement. "Next weekend, we feel like is a longshot, but the doctors are hopeful that if Joel works hard in rehab and progresses that it is possible that he could play in the later rounds of the NCAA Tournament if our team is fortunate enough to advance."

Yikes. Sounds like we may not see him until at least mid-tournament.

I've heard this same song-and-dance before, about Arinze Onuaku.  This probably means there's a very strong chance he's done for the year.  Doubly so if he's concerned about a reaggravation hurting his draft stock, which he should be.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2014, 05:54:08 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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I wonder if this would affect his decision regarding returning to school...

When I first heard it, I thought it was just a narrative of a kid enjoying college and playing college ball and when the time came the NBA would be too much to pass up.

Now - if he misses the Tournament and his draft stock drops a bit, does returning to Kansas become more likely?
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Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2014, 06:06:52 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I wonder if this would affect his decision regarding returning to school...

When I first heard it, I thought it was just a narrative of a kid enjoying college and playing college ball and when the time came the NBA would be too much to pass up.

Now - if he misses the Tournament and his draft stock drops a bit, does returning to Kansas become more likely?

Returning to school could become less likely. He has a legit payday now if he goes pro. If he returns to school and gets another back injury his draft position could plummet.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2014, 06:14:29 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Or if him and his doctors determine that this is a fixable injury that will be non-recurring (like a broken finger etc), does he feel like he has unfinished business?

Considering his background and his relative newcomer status with the game, maybe he would be content to stick around another year...
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Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2014, 07:03:16 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Heck..no way I'd stay in College.

What to stay around and get HURT for nada?

No way.......  I f I get hurt it will be making a million dollars and have the best medical possible.

I go NBA ...

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2014, 07:38:51 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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"Based on that, this weekend (in the Big 12 Championship) is out," Self said in a statement. "Next weekend, we feel like is a longshot, but the doctors are hopeful that if Joel works hard in rehab and progresses that it is possible that he could play in the later rounds of the NCAA Tournament if our team is fortunate enough to advance."

Yikes. Sounds like we may not see him until at least mid-tournament.

He's done for the year. The NCAA takes injuries into account when seeding -- if you're missing a key player for the tourney who you've had all year, you get a worse seed.  Self is mostly trying to keep Kansas from getting punished in the seeding by saying he "might" return.  If they thought it was possible, they'd use stronger, but still non-committal language, like "we expect him to return."  Stress fracture in the back?  His goal is to rehab so he can participate in the draft combine at this point.


How does that work? If a guy gets injured they move you down in the bracket? That seems quite stupid. Also, I always just assumed there was objectivity in tourney seeding, but I guess I was wrong.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2014, 07:49:44 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Or if him and his doctors determine that this is a fixable injury that will be non-recurring (like a broken finger etc), does he feel like he has unfinished business?

Considering his background and his relative newcomer status with the game, maybe he would be content to stick around another year...

Considering that this is what you make if you're the #3 pick in the draft:
 
1st year     2nd year     3rd year     
$3,214,200-$3,358,800-$3,503,500


And this is what you make if you're the 21st pick (ala the Sullinger scenario, talented player who plummets due to injury concerns):

1st year      2nd year      3rd year
$1,127,200-$1,177,900-$1,228,700

I don't think it makes more sense to keep learning the game at the college level.

Worst comes to worst at the NBA level, you're out of the league at 24 with a nice nest egg.

Worst comes to worst at the college level, you're stuck with a revoked scholarship and zero real job prospects.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2014, 08:20:32 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Leave now.  Don't go back to school.

Aka (the McGahee/Noel) factor.

You might drop a few slots in this year's draft but the risk is far greater to drop more if you go back to school for an additional year and everything doesn't go rosy or your rehabilitation takes longer than expected.


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Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2014, 11:17:49 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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is it worth the risk to draft an injury prone center? His potential is sky high but his injuries do worry me

Yeah I'm glad we passed on Sullinger because of his back problems.

...Wait a minute... :P

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2014, 12:43:21 AM »

Offline saltlover

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"Based on that, this weekend (in the Big 12 Championship) is out," Self said in a statement. "Next weekend, we feel like is a longshot, but the doctors are hopeful that if Joel works hard in rehab and progresses that it is possible that he could play in the later rounds of the NCAA Tournament if our team is fortunate enough to advance."

Yikes. Sounds like we may not see him until at least mid-tournament.

He's done for the year. The NCAA takes injuries into account when seeding -- if you're missing a key player for the tourney who you've had all year, you get a worse seed.  Self is mostly trying to keep Kansas from getting punished in the seeding by saying he "might" return.  If they thought it was possible, they'd use stronger, but still non-committal language, like "we expect him to return."  Stress fracture in the back?  His goal is to rehab so he can participate in the draft combine at this point.


How does that work? If a guy gets injured they move you down in the bracket? That seems quite stupid. Also, I always just assumed there was objectivity in tourney seeding, but I guess I was wrong.

They factor in how your team is now.  So if you had a rough start to the year, but now your team is playing well, you'll likely get in/get a better seed than a team with a similar record who's struggling.  If a key contributor to your success is going to be out, they ding your seed, because they want to rate the teams for the tournament.  Now, if Kansas goes off and wins the big 12 tournament without Embiid, they're a lock for a 1, because they'll be seen to have adapted to his absence.  But if they play like they did against West Virginia, they could very well slide to a 3.

It seems arbitrary, but there's an element of fairness to it.  If Team A plays .500 ball for a most of the season, beacaue they're missing a key contributor, but then gets him back for the last 10 games and goes 9-1 for. record of 19-11, are they a worse team or better team than one who started 18-2, but then went 2-8 down the stretch when their star went down, for a final record of 20-10? Assuming their schedules are the same, there's no easy answer, but if team B's star is going to miss the tourney, they'll give the nod to team A, because team A is the better team right now.

For the most part this affects seeding, and not who gets in, but it can happen that a bubble team loses it's star and doesn't make it.  But again, they were on the bubble with the star, so it's not completely irrational.  And they don't drop teams from 1 seeds to 5 seeds just because of an injury, but they will take injuries into account, which can help a team getting healthy, or hurt a team dealing with injuries.  Part of it also depends how clear-cut the seeds are.  Kansas is one of about 5-6 teams trying to make a case for the last #1 seed (Florida, Arizona, and Wichita are locks).  Dropping to a three seed might happen if they lose their first tourney game even if Embiid were healthy.  This just makes it more likely.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2014, 12:54:42 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I wonder if this would affect his decision regarding returning to school...

When I first heard it, I thought it was just a narrative of a kid enjoying college and playing college ball and when the time came the NBA would be too much to pass up.

Now - if he misses the Tournament and his draft stock drops a bit, does returning to Kansas become more likely?

Returning to school could become less likely. He has a legit payday now if he goes pro. If he returns to school and gets another back injury his draft position could plummet.
Yeah. People will bite this draft. If he falls apart more in another college season, that could hurt.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2014, 03:20:37 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I never bought into the whole "Embiid might not declare". This pretty much solidifies that he will eventually declare for the draft. Still a projected top 5 pick even with injury.
- LilRip

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2014, 03:31:50 AM »

Offline chambers

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Well if we don't get a top 3 pick then we have a shot at a top 3 talent with injury risk.
My dad had a back injury like this after falling off a horse. Solid rehab therapy for 9 months and then smashing the weights and strengthening his core. Give the kid some HGH now before the pros and turn him into Karl Malone.  Doesn't need speed, his footwork is amazing. Just pack on the pounds and turn him into the ultimate Serge Ibaka.
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Embiid injuries.
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2014, 08:02:40 AM »

Offline gpap

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is it worth the risk to draft an injury prone center? His potential is sky high but his injuries do worry me

Yeah I'm glad we passed on Sullinger because of his back problems.

...Wait a minute... :P

Sullinger did miss half a season last year because of back problems.

Not sure I'd want another draft pick to suffer the same fate.

It's also still way too early to deem whether Sully overcame his prior back issues to have a successful NBA career.