Poll about Rondo - Celtics Best Player 2011-2012?

[kozlodoev]

As said, our most "Valuable" player was probably KG just because of the defense intensity everyone seemed to get.

As far as our "best" player - was easily and far away Rondo. I'd even go as far as putting him as the best player of the whole Playoffs. He was literally unstoppable.

Or in other words, Garnett was really the best player, but Rondo filled up the stat sheet.

  No, our backup bigs were terrible, especially after Wilcox left. In the playoffs our only players over 6'8 were KG, an injured rookie (Steimsma) and Ryan Hollins. KG was more important in 2012 than he was in 2008 or 2009. Clearly not a better player.

Can you remind me who our backup PG was?

[Celtics18]

As said, our most "Valuable" player was probably KG just because of the defense intensity everyone seemed to get.

As far as our "best" player - was easily and far away Rondo. I'd even go as far as putting him as the best player of the whole Playoffs. He was literally unstoppable.

Or in other words, Garnett was really the best player, but Rondo filled up the stat sheet.

  No, our backup bigs were terrible, especially after Wilcox left. In the playoffs our only players over 6'8 were KG, an injured rookie (Steimsma) and Ryan Hollins. KG was more important in 2012 than he was in 2008 or 2009. Clearly not a better player.

Can you remind me who our backup PG was?

Keyon Dooling. 

Luckily, we had a starting point guard who was capable of going a strong 43 minutes a game during that post-season.  The same can't be said for our starting center. 

[snively]

Take KG off and we still get to the ECF.
Take PP off and we still get to the ECF.
Take RR off and we still get to the ECF.

Rondo was the only reason (on our side) that we held with Miami.

Essentially Rondo was the best but only in a slim margin. Plus I think Rondo really helped KG and Paul be more effective than they did for Rondo

Take KG off... we don't get to the ECF.

The other two, maybe.  The main reason we turned it around in 2012:

#1 - KG suddenly went vintage and dropped 20 and 10 a night while still being arguably the best defensive player in the league.  We allowed something like 12 fewer points when he was on the court.

#2 - We faced off against Horford-less Atlanta in Round 1

#3 - Rose got injured so we ended up facing off against a garbage 8th seed 76ers team in round 2... they still pushed us to 7 games.

#4 - Rondo filled up a stat sheet vs 21 year old Jeff Teague and whatever crap Philly was running at point.

#4 Jrue Holiday was crap?

So Rondo was feasting off of inferior competition, but KG was vintage?  KG was facing Jason Collins, Spencer Hawes and the 3-headed monster of Haslem/Anthony/Turiaf for the majority of that postseason before fading in the climactic final 2 games against the Heat.

For sure we benefited a ton from a devastating string of injuries to our competitors (Rose/Horford/Bosh), but losing AB and running out a hobbled Ray (useless until late in the Miami series) factored in for us too.  And Rondo's impact was every bit as legit as KG's throughout and more impressive in that he was at his best as the competition got tougher, while KG tapered off and Pierce nosedived.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Take KG off and we still get to the ECF.
Take PP off and we still get to the ECF.
Take RR off and we still get to the ECF.

Rondo was the only reason (on our side) that we held with Miami.

Essentially Rondo was the best but only in a slim margin. Plus I think Rondo really helped KG and Paul be more effective than they did for Rondo

Take KG off... we don't get to the ECF.

The other two, maybe.  The main reason we turned it around in 2012:

#1 - KG suddenly went vintage and dropped 20 and 10 a night while still being arguably the best defensive player in the league.  We allowed something like 12 fewer points when he was on the court.

#2 - We faced off against Horford-less Atlanta in Round 1

#3 - Rose got injured so we ended up facing off against a garbage 8th seed 76ers team in round 2... they still pushed us to 7 games.

#4 - Rondo filled up a stat sheet vs 21 year old Jeff Teague and whatever crap Philly was running at point.

#4 Jrue Holiday was crap?

So Rondo was feasting off of inferior competition, but KG was vintage?  KG was facing Jason Collins, Spencer Hawes and the 3-headed monster of Haslem/Anthony/Turiaf for the majority of that postseason before fading in the climactic final 2 games against the Heat.

For sure we benefited a ton from a devastating string of injuries to our competitors (Rose/Horford/Bosh), but losing AB and running out a hobbled Ray (useless until late in the Miami series) factored in for us too.  And Rondo's impact was every bit as legit as KG's throughout and more impressive in that he was at his best as the competition got tougher, while KG tapered off and Pierce nosedived.

Yeah. My recollection of it was that it was Rondo + KG vs. the world. And a little Bass.

Then you had Dooling, Pietrus and Hollins making one or two plays off the bench.

[Tr1boy]

Without KG we would be horrible.

KG was the teams backbone since the beginning

[BballTim]

As said, our most "Valuable" player was probably KG just because of the defense intensity everyone seemed to get.

As far as our "best" player - was easily and far away Rondo. I'd even go as far as putting him as the best player of the whole Playoffs. He was literally unstoppable.

Or in other words, Garnett was really the best player, but Rondo filled up the stat sheet.

  No, our backup bigs were terrible, especially after Wilcox left. In the playoffs our only players over 6'8 were KG, an injured rookie (Steimsma) and Ryan Hollins. KG was more important in 2012 than he was in 2008 or 2009. Clearly not a better player.

Can you remind me who our backup PG was?

  For all intents and purposes it was Paul Pierce. You might not realize that he was better at handling the ball and running an offense in 2012 than Ryan Hollins or an injured Greg Stiemsma was at manning the center position but he was.

[D.o.s.]

I don't know about that - Steemer was the next Russell, after all.

[BballTim]

Take KG off and we still get to the ECF.
Take PP off and we still get to the ECF.
Take RR off and we still get to the ECF.

Rondo was the only reason (on our side) that we held with Miami.

Essentially Rondo was the best but only in a slim margin. Plus I think Rondo really helped KG and Paul be more effective than they did for Rondo

Take KG off... we don't get to the ECF.

The other two, maybe.  The main reason we turned it around in 2012:

#1 - KG suddenly went vintage and dropped 20 and 10 a night while still being arguably the best defensive player in the league.  We allowed something like 12 fewer points when he was on the court.

#2 - We faced off against Horford-less Atlanta in Round 1

#3 - Rose got injured so we ended up facing off against a garbage 8th seed 76ers team in round 2... they still pushed us to 7 games.

#4 - Rondo filled up a stat sheet vs 21 year old Jeff Teague and whatever crap Philly was running at point.

#4 Jrue Holiday was crap?

So Rondo was feasting off of inferior competition, but KG was vintage?  KG was facing Jason Collins, Spencer Hawes and the 3-headed monster of Haslem/Anthony/Turiaf for the majority of that postseason before fading in the climactic final 2 games against the Heat.

  The teams we faced in 2012 were all top defenses. If you look at production by position in 2012 for Philly they were near the top of the league in lowest opposing pg production. So were the Heat I think. Talking about what a cakewalk it was for Rondo is just not knowing much about the teams we played against in those playoffs.

[LarBrd33]

KG was our best overall player, the Captain was our best offensive player.

Rondo had a TS% of .483 that season (44.8% FG%), and turned the ball over on an estimated 23% of possessions.  He had the worst offensive rating of any of the starters, and he only averaged 12 points per game.

Rondo was fantastic in the playoffs.  He was right there with KG.  In terms of his regular season, though, it was sub-par by his standards, and by the standards set by KG and PP.  It's weird to say somebody who led the league in assists had a down year, but 2012 was not Rondo at his peak.  Plus, he missed 20% of the season due to injuries.

I think people might be misremembering Rondo's season a bit, due to his great playoff run.  He was our third best regular season player, and it wasn't particularly close.  (Rondo was well behind Pierce and KG in terms of PER, win shares, win shares per minute, offensive rating, point differential while on the floor, etc.)

part of the reason we remember that playoff run so fondly is because Rondo upped his minutes a ridiculous 43 per game.  It inflated his stats, but on a per-minute basis he was basically the same player.  Also it helps when you're being defended by sub-par talent. It skews the stats a bit when you're going against Mario Chalmers and Miami is focusing on stopping everyone other than you.

Rondo, 2011-2012, per-36 numbers:

Regular season (36.9 mpg)
pts/36:  11.9
as/36:   11.4 (AST% 52.5%)
trb/36:    4.7
stl/36:    1.7
tov/36:   3.6

Playoffs (42.6 mpg)
pts/36:  14.6
as/36:   10.1  (AST% 54.0%)
trb/36:    5.7
stl/36:    2.0
tov/36:   3.2

Hmm... nope. 

'
Hmmm... yup.  Essentially the same player.  Law of averages would have worked that out.  Small sample size vs mediocre teams (Atlanta and Philly) and a handful of games against a Miami team that was focusing on defending everyone else... and for that you have 1 less assist and 1 more basket to show for your efforts.

“Trying to step back and be objective about it after a sensational performance by a great player. You have to take a step back, you have to watch the film a couple times and try to look at it objectively. It’s a dangerous thing.

“He’s most dangerous when he’s getting into the paint, getting to the rim, and obviously getting other people involved. But you also don’t want to just give him free-throw-line warmup jump shots.

“So it’s a balance we’re going to have to figure out. I don’t have the answer for that right now.’’

Though Spoelstra put LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on Rondo at times in Game 2, more of that doesn’t appear to be in the works. Spoelstra and the Heat still have to worry about Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen.

“I think he deserves the respect of multiple things,’’ said Spoelstra. “He’s that smart, he’ll figure it out. If it’s the same guys in coverage, he’ll figure it out.

“They also have a handful of other Hall of Famers that we have to deal with as well, and LeBron and Dwyane have to defend those guys.’’

So Spoelstra was back to the video, trying to unlock the secret to defending a player who can confound opponents with multiple attacking styles. In Game 3, Rondo could just as easily go back to dishing the ball and his jump shot might vanish.

As Wade said after Game 2, “We tried to keep mixing it up on him. I thought we did a good job making adjustments.’’

And still Rondo scored 44 points.

“He was sensational,’’ said Spoelstra, who has used different adjectives in every press conference to describe Rondo. “Some things we were able to do that we like that didn’t necessarily slow him down.

“But he’s that dynamic of a player, he’s that gifted, that it’s going to require the respect of multiple defenders and multiple coverages, and we were doing that throughout the game. He was making terrific reads.’’

- See more at: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2012/06/01/heat_coach_erik_spoelstra_doesnt_know_what_to_do_with_rajon_rondo/#sthash.hDDGffLH.dpuf

Oh is this a write-up about how Rondo put up 44 points in a game the Heat won?  Nice.   Reminds me of when we let Jordan score 63 on us and won ... or when the Heat let Green drop 40+ on them and won.   

[BballTim]

KG was our best overall player, the Captain was our best offensive player.

Rondo had a TS% of .483 that season (44.8% FG%), and turned the ball over on an estimated 23% of possessions.  He had the worst offensive rating of any of the starters, and he only averaged 12 points per game.

Rondo was fantastic in the playoffs.  He was right there with KG.  In terms of his regular season, though, it was sub-par by his standards, and by the standards set by KG and PP.  It's weird to say somebody who led the league in assists had a down year, but 2012 was not Rondo at his peak.  Plus, he missed 20% of the season due to injuries.

I think people might be misremembering Rondo's season a bit, due to his great playoff run.  He was our third best regular season player, and it wasn't particularly close.  (Rondo was well behind Pierce and KG in terms of PER, win shares, win shares per minute, offensive rating, point differential while on the floor, etc.)

part of the reason we remember that playoff run so fondly is because Rondo upped his minutes a ridiculous 43 per game.  It inflated his stats, but on a per-minute basis he was basically the same player.  Also it helps when you're being defended by sub-par talent. It skews the stats a bit when you're going against Mario Chalmers and Miami is focusing on stopping everyone other than you.

Rondo, 2011-2012, per-36 numbers:

Regular season (36.9 mpg)
pts/36:  11.9
as/36:   11.4 (AST% 52.5%)
trb/36:    4.7
stl/36:    1.7
tov/36:   3.6

Playoffs (42.6 mpg)
pts/36:  14.6
as/36:   10.1  (AST% 54.0%)
trb/36:    5.7
stl/36:    2.0
tov/36:   3.2

Hmm... nope. 

'
Hmmm... yup.  Essentially the same player.  Law of averages would have worked that out.  Small sample size vs mediocre teams (Atlanta and Philly) and a handful of games against a Miami team that was focusing on defending everyone else... and for that you have 1 less assist and 1 more basket to show for your efforts.

“Trying to step back and be objective about it after a sensational performance by a great player. You have to take a step back, you have to watch the film a couple times and try to look at it objectively. It’s a dangerous thing.

“He’s most dangerous when he’s getting into the paint, getting to the rim, and obviously getting other people involved. But you also don’t want to just give him free-throw-line warmup jump shots.

“So it’s a balance we’re going to have to figure out. I don’t have the answer for that right now.’’

Though Spoelstra put LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on Rondo at times in Game 2, more of that doesn’t appear to be in the works. Spoelstra and the Heat still have to worry about Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen.

“I think he deserves the respect of multiple things,’’ said Spoelstra. “He’s that smart, he’ll figure it out. If it’s the same guys in coverage, he’ll figure it out.

“They also have a handful of other Hall of Famers that we have to deal with as well, and LeBron and Dwyane have to defend those guys.’’

So Spoelstra was back to the video, trying to unlock the secret to defending a player who can confound opponents with multiple attacking styles. In Game 3, Rondo could just as easily go back to dishing the ball and his jump shot might vanish.

As Wade said after Game 2, “We tried to keep mixing it up on him. I thought we did a good job making adjustments.’’

And still Rondo scored 44 points.

“He was sensational,’’ said Spoelstra, who has used different adjectives in every press conference to describe Rondo. “Some things we were able to do that we like that didn’t necessarily slow him down.

“But he’s that dynamic of a player, he’s that gifted, that it’s going to require the respect of multiple defenders and multiple coverages, and we were doing that throughout the game. He was making terrific reads.’’

- See more at: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2012/06/01/heat_coach_erik_spoelstra_doesnt_know_what_to_do_with_rajon_rondo/#sthash.hDDGffLH.dpuf

Oh is this a write-up about how Rondo put up 44 points in a game the Heat won?  Nice.   Reminds me of when we let Jordan score 63 on us and won ... or when the Heat let Green drop 40+ on them and won.

  I'm guessing you never saw the game, but we didn't let MJ score 63 on us. That's basically like saying that the Pistons "let" LeBron score 25 straight points for the Cavs in a playoff game. it's complete nonsense. Not to mention we won that game in double overtime, it's not like he scored those points in a blowout loss.

[Celtics18]

KG was our best overall player, the Captain was our best offensive player.

Rondo had a TS% of .483 that season (44.8% FG%), and turned the ball over on an estimated 23% of possessions.  He had the worst offensive rating of any of the starters, and he only averaged 12 points per game.

Rondo was fantastic in the playoffs.  He was right there with KG.  In terms of his regular season, though, it was sub-par by his standards, and by the standards set by KG and PP.  It's weird to say somebody who led the league in assists had a down year, but 2012 was not Rondo at his peak.  Plus, he missed 20% of the season due to injuries.

I think people might be misremembering Rondo's season a bit, due to his great playoff run.  He was our third best regular season player, and it wasn't particularly close.  (Rondo was well behind Pierce and KG in terms of PER, win shares, win shares per minute, offensive rating, point differential while on the floor, etc.)

part of the reason we remember that playoff run so fondly is because Rondo upped his minutes a ridiculous 43 per game.  It inflated his stats, but on a per-minute basis he was basically the same player.  Also it helps when you're being defended by sub-par talent. It skews the stats a bit when you're going against Mario Chalmers and Miami is focusing on stopping everyone other than you.

Rondo, 2011-2012, per-36 numbers:

Regular season (36.9 mpg)
pts/36:  11.9
as/36:   11.4 (AST% 52.5%)
trb/36:    4.7
stl/36:    1.7
tov/36:   3.6

Playoffs (42.6 mpg)
pts/36:  14.6
as/36:   10.1  (AST% 54.0%)
trb/36:    5.7
stl/36:    2.0
tov/36:   3.2

Hmm... nope. 

'
Hmmm... yup.  Essentially the same player.  Law of averages would have worked that out.  Small sample size vs mediocre teams (Atlanta and Philly) and a handful of games against a Miami team that was focusing on defending everyone else... and for that you have 1 less assist and 1 more basket to show for your efforts.

“Trying to step back and be objective about it after a sensational performance by a great player. You have to take a step back, you have to watch the film a couple times and try to look at it objectively. It’s a dangerous thing.

“He’s most dangerous when he’s getting into the paint, getting to the rim, and obviously getting other people involved. But you also don’t want to just give him free-throw-line warmup jump shots.

“So it’s a balance we’re going to have to figure out. I don’t have the answer for that right now.’’

Though Spoelstra put LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on Rondo at times in Game 2, more of that doesn’t appear to be in the works. Spoelstra and the Heat still have to worry about Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen.

“I think he deserves the respect of multiple things,’’ said Spoelstra. “He’s that smart, he’ll figure it out. If it’s the same guys in coverage, he’ll figure it out.

“They also have a handful of other Hall of Famers that we have to deal with as well, and LeBron and Dwyane have to defend those guys.’’

So Spoelstra was back to the video, trying to unlock the secret to defending a player who can confound opponents with multiple attacking styles. In Game 3, Rondo could just as easily go back to dishing the ball and his jump shot might vanish.

As Wade said after Game 2, “We tried to keep mixing it up on him. I thought we did a good job making adjustments.’’

And still Rondo scored 44 points.

“He was sensational,’’ said Spoelstra, who has used different adjectives in every press conference to describe Rondo. “Some things we were able to do that we like that didn’t necessarily slow him down.

“But he’s that dynamic of a player, he’s that gifted, that it’s going to require the respect of multiple defenders and multiple coverages, and we were doing that throughout the game. He was making terrific reads.’’

- See more at: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2012/06/01/heat_coach_erik_spoelstra_doesnt_know_what_to_do_with_rajon_rondo/#sthash.hDDGffLH.dpuf

Oh is this a write-up about how Rondo put up 44 points in a game the Heat won?  Nice.   Reminds me of when we let Jordan score 63 on us and won ... or when the Heat let Green drop 40+ on them and won.

Rondo was a nightmare for Spoelstra and the Heat in 2012.  Why you want to ignore or downplay that reality is beyond me. 

Maybe you are afraid that someone will call you a "homer" for giving Rajon Rondo credit for his transcendent performance in the conference Finals against Miami in that series. 

Have fun, though.  To me it just comes across as silly and petty, but, oh well.