Celtics actually not 'good enough' with Rondo and Green

[wayupnorth]

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

No, it really is not. All those teams have significantly more talent than the Celtics have.

Rondo hasn't gotten this team to win because the team stinks. Its being managed from the top to lose and the coach has a farce of an offensive system installed that takes away from Rondo's total effectiveness as a player.

I just do not understand those that are so gung ho to get young, unproven, college players on this team next year and want Rondo gone. Rondo is the exact type player you want running an offense with young players. He will demand they know their roles and he will make them better in every way offensively.

Let Rondo get back to 100% and play a whole preseason and season in a better offensive system and people will see that Rondo is the guy you want around all those unproven rookie and sophomore players that you have been drooling over playing in the NCAA and Europe this year.

They dont have significantly more talent. Look at their rosters

Do you really believe that he hasn't looked at the rosters before making that comment?

Comments like this do nothing to further public discourse, and come off as astoundingly arrogant.

I notice this is a trend with you.

[wdleehi]

You didn't answer my question.  What do you think?

Are you really asking this? Chris Paul won 38 and 39 games in his rookie and sophomore year in Oklahoma with pretty much David West and a collection of spare parts.

This Celtics have no one at David West's level that year.

Nor did this Celtics team have a C as good as PJ Brown.


Oh and in his second year, add Peja and Chandler.

[cometboy]

Rondo has to figure it out.  He has not had success without the big three.

Next year its his last yr before contract renewal. He will have to play better. Danny will give him a better team

If no progression rondo wont be resigned and traded by next years deadline. Maybe at this rate rondo will be the one who wants out

Rondo has gone from playing with the big three to playing with one of the worst rosters in the game. He is continuing to improve each game he plays. It is difficult to judge his game given how poor this roster is.

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

We have won majority of the games without rondo this year. One would think with  rondo we would do better. The injury excuse is dying game by game

I know you have been anti rondo for a while, and i am pro rondo. But you are right in that the injury excuse can only go so far. If rondo wants to be the man, the focal point, the leader, the max payed player, he needs to attack the basket.

Watching him setup mediocre shooters with open outside shots is brutal to watch. If rondo requires elite shooters around him, then he celtics need to focus those max contracts on the Kevin love, Bradley beal, Andrew wiggins types.

Perhaps rondo has not been underpaid throughout his current contract. Perhaps 10-12 per year is right on the money. If he doesn't improve much by the end of the year, and doesn't indicate a willingness to sign an extension this summer, i am becoming more open to trading him this summer, or early next season.

I want to see rondo improve and stay. But i can understand your frustration. And i would be very nervous about paying him the max.

so, I don't think Rondo has sufficient confidence in his knee to "attack the basket." I think this will take until sometime early next season to return. In addition, this team has rarely had everyone "healthy" at the same time. We can be better than we are playing. I just cannot imagine what's wrong (wink, wink).

We've always known that Rondo is not an elite shooter. He is an elite passer/distributor who requires at least one elite shooter to compliment him. We do not have one of these, let alone more than one. In addition, I think confidence in his jumper has improved quite a bit.

Max contract, his desire to stay, all of that aside. I am inclined to wait and see where the team is to start next season. I think his trade value will be higher next season if he shows he can still perform as before, maybe better with a bit of a jumper.

I will change my mind very quickly if Danny pulls off the heist of the year in the off-season.

CB

[D.o.s.]

You didn't answer my question.  What do you think?

Are you really asking this? Chris Paul won 38 and 39 games in his rookie and sophomore year in Oklahoma with pretty much David West and a collection of spare parts.

Well, I posed it, didn't I?

Of course, Paul played 78 games that first year and wasn't showing up in the middle of the season coming off on ACL surgery.  But 13 games is 13 games, right?

(Btw, I do think Paul is a superior PG to Rondo.  I just don't think anyone would've done a much better job with this surrounding cast)

Woudn't it make more sense to compare Paul's season after knee surgery with Rondo's? Since they both had knee surgeries in February?

http://bkref.com/tiny/4fboQ

Small sample size with Rondo, obviously, but if anyone has the time they could go through Paul's first 13 games of that season and do the stats work.

You have listed the wrong season. Chris Paul was out for less than two months and came back the same season (2009-2010, with significantly worse stats in those final seven games after the injury). Rondo was out for a year.

Chris Paul pre-injury:
20.4 pts / 11.2 assists / 4.6 rebounds / 2.3 steals (50.8 FG%)
Chris Paul post-injury:
9.4 pts / 8.0 assists / 2.4 rebounds / 1.4 steals (40.0 FG%)

Good catch. That's what I get for not being 100% focused on my basetkball reference searching.

[hpantazo]

Outside the green goggle crowd, did anyone really think their ceiling would be much higher than a 6 or 7 seed in the East?

No, but this should be a pretty resounding answer about the ability of Rondo to be the best player on a good team, injury or no injury.

That makes no sense. How well did the celtics do with Pierce in the Big Al era, or the Ricky Davis or Wally Szcerbiak eras?

[European NBA fan]

Rondo has to figure it out.  He has not had success without the big three.

Next year its his last yr before contract renewal. He will have to play better. Danny will give him a better team

If no progression rondo wont be resigned and traded by next years deadline. Maybe at this rate rondo will be the one who wants out

Rondo has gone from playing with the big three to playing with one of the worst rosters in the game. He is continuing to improve each game he plays. It is difficult to judge his game given how poor this roster is.

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

We have won majority of the games without rondo this year. One would think with  rondo we would do better. The injury excuse is dying game by game

The Suns have four players who shoot better than 37 percent on their three pointers and more than three shots per game. The Celtics have none.

The Wizards have three players who shoot better than 40 percent on their three pointers and more than four shots per game. The Celtics? You got it: None.

The Hawks have a worse February than the Celtics, just saying. They have one of the best three point shooters in the league (Korver at 47 percent) plus a handful of other shooters that are better than any Celtic not named Chris Johnson. And they used to have an elite big man (Horford).

Did you bother to check the Celtics record, when Rondo came back? We were 14-26...

[kozlodoev]

This Celtics have no one at David West's level that year.

Nor did this Celtics team have a C as good as PJ Brown.


Oh and in his second year, add Peja and Chandler.

David West is a nice player, but he wasn't _that_ much better than Jeff Green at that stage of his career. And Peja played 13 games total.

[Tr1boy]

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

No, it really is not. All those teams have significantly more talent than the Celtics have.

Rondo hasn't gotten this team to win because the team stinks. Its being managed from the top to lose and the coach has a farce of an offensive system installed that takes away from Rondo's total effectiveness as a player.

I just do not understand those that are so gung ho to get young, unproven, college players on this team next year and want Rondo gone. Rondo is the exact type player you want running an offense with young players. He will demand they know their roles and he will make them better in every way offensively.

Let Rondo get back to 100% and play a whole preseason and season in a better offensive system and people will see that Rondo is the guy you want around all those unproven rookie and sophomore players that you have been drooling over playing in the NCAA and Europe this year.

They dont have significantly more talent. Look at their rosters

Do you really believe that he hasn't looked at the rosters before making that comment?

Comments like this do nothing to further public discourse, and come off as astoundingly arrogant.

I notice this is a trend with you.

None of the rosters below are considered significantly better than ours

Phx - dragic, green, frye, plumlee, tucker

Was- wall, beal, gortat, nene

Hawks - millsap, teague, williams

If this was the start of the year nobody would think they would be in playoff contention outside of Washington

[wdleehi]

This Celtics have no one at David West's level that year.

Nor did this Celtics team have a C as good as PJ Brown.


Oh and in his second year, add Peja and Chandler.

David West is a nice player, but he wasn't _that_ much better than Jeff Green at that stage of his career. And Peja played 13 games total.

Yes, West was that much better.  A big man averaging 17 and 7.4 rebounds his 3rd NBA seasons (after missing much of the year before)

[hpantazo]

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

No, it really is not. All those teams have significantly more talent than the Celtics have.

Rondo hasn't gotten this team to win because the team stinks. Its being managed from the top to lose and the coach has a farce of an offensive system installed that takes away from Rondo's total effectiveness as a player.

I just do not understand those that are so gung ho to get young, unproven, college players on this team next year and want Rondo gone. Rondo is the exact type player you want running an offense with young players. He will demand they know their roles and he will make them better in every way offensively.

Let Rondo get back to 100% and play a whole preseason and season in a better offensive system and people will see that Rondo is the guy you want around all those unproven rookie and sophomore players that you have been drooling over playing in the NCAA and Europe this year.

They dont have significantly more talent. Look at their rosters

Do you really believe that he hasn't looked at the rosters before making that comment?

Comments like this do nothing to further public discourse, and come off as astoundingly arrogant.

I notice this is a trend with you.

None of the rosters below are considered significantly better than ours

Phx - dragic, green, frye, plumlee, tucker

Was- wall, beal, gortat, nene

Hawks - millsap, teague, williams

If this was the start of the year nobody would think they would be in playoff contention outside of Washington

Wow, you skipped a bunch of good players from those rosters in luring Eric Bledsoe, Trevor Ariza, and Al Horford. The hawks have been struggling without horford, but with him most people predicted them to be a playoff team

[Tr1boy]

Rondo has to figure it out.  He has not had success without the big three.

Next year its his last yr before contract renewal. He will have to play better. Danny will give him a better team

If no progression rondo wont be resigned and traded by next years deadline. Maybe at this rate rondo will be the one who wants out

Rondo has gone from playing with the big three to playing with one of the worst rosters in the game. He is continuing to improve each game he plays. It is difficult to judge his game given how poor this roster is.

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

We have won majority of the games without rondo this year. One would think with  rondo we would do better. The injury excuse is dying game by game

The Suns have four players who shoot better than 37 percent on their three pointers and more than three shots per game. The Celtics have none.

The Wizards have three players who shoot better than 40 percent on their three pointers and more than four shots per game. The Celtics? You got it: None.

The Hawks have a worse February than the Celtics, just saying. They have one of the best three point shooters in the league (Korver at 47 percent) plus a handful of other shooters that are better than any Celtic not named Chris Johnson. And they used to have an elite big man (Horford).

Did you bother to check the Celtics record, when Rondo came back? We were 14-26...

Your using the current stats to backup your pt?  At beginning of the yr did those rosters have much of a chance to contend?

Our record prior to rondo was not anything to be glad about. But with rondo it has been a horror show.

If rondo is so good as many here say he is the one that carrys the team on his back. We should be better with him then without. He still has excuses to use but its getting tiring to hear.

I wouldnt care if we lost but at least with better effort starting from our captain. He walks it up to court almost all game instead of rushing to the basket confusing the opposing defense. The first three possessions of the game before the defense settled down he could of ran. He used to from 2008-2012. Since last season it has been frustrating to watch a guy who is meant to run , slow it down

[kozlodoev]

Wow, you skipped a bunch of good players from those rosters in luring Eric Bledsoe, Trevor Ariza, and Al Horford. The hawks have been struggling without horford, but with him most people predicted them to be a playoff team

Bledsoe and Horford are out right now, although you're right that you can't look at team record without considering them in the discussion.

It's funny that you'd mention Ariza. Ariza's career-best season is probably worse than Jeff Green's career-best season.

[PhoSita]

Hardly a surprise.  A lack of talent and experience will always catch up with teams eventually.

[Tr1boy]

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

No, it really is not. All those teams have significantly more talent than the Celtics have.

Rondo hasn't gotten this team to win because the team stinks. Its being managed from the top to lose and the coach has a farce of an offensive system installed that takes away from Rondo's total effectiveness as a player.

I just do not understand those that are so gung ho to get young, unproven, college players on this team next year and want Rondo gone. Rondo is the exact type player you want running an offense with young players. He will demand they know their roles and he will make them better in every way offensively.

Let Rondo get back to 100% and play a whole preseason and season in a better offensive system and people will see that Rondo is the guy you want around all those unproven rookie and sophomore players that you have been drooling over playing in the NCAA and Europe this year.

They dont have significantly more talent. Look at their rosters

Do you really believe that he hasn't looked at the rosters before making that comment?

Comments like this do nothing to further public discourse, and come off as astoundingly arrogant.

I notice this is a trend with you.

None of the rosters below are considered significantly better than ours

Phx - dragic, green, frye, plumlee, tucker

Was- wall, beal, gortat, nene

Hawks - millsap, teague, williams

If this was the start of the year nobody would think they would be in playoff contention outside of Washington

Wow, you skipped a bunch of good players from those rosters in luring Eric Bledsoe, Trevor Ariza, and Al Horford. The hawks have been struggling without horford, but with him most people predicted them to be a playoff team

I left them out to signify my pt further. Even without those players (horford and bledsoe) those teams are doing better

I mean look at the hawks roster now and tell me they have significant more talent

[mmmmm]

Outside the green goggle crowd, did anyone really think their ceiling would be much higher than a 6 or 7 seed in the East?

No, but this should be a pretty resounding answer about the ability of Rondo to be the best player on a good team, injury or no injury.

Did you forget the sarcasm font?