Celtics actually not 'good enough' with Rondo and Green

[pokeKingCurtis]

No Sully, no AB, that's two of your best players.

Bass played bad last night. That's your next "best" player after your young core.

Young players and bad players playing inconsistently, as expected.

Team hasn't had a stable lineup since the Jordan Crawford trade (Bayless injured, Sully nagging injuries, AB injured, Rondo intermittently playing, Hump injured, even Faverani is injured).

Rondo 13 games from his injury, not 100%, not playing back to backs.

Chemistry all screwed up from trades.

Jeff Green compared to David West.

The Canadian phenom Wiggins...Joel...Anthony is getting minutes.



From this, Rondo (and Stevens) is conclusively said to not be good enough.

Sounds about right. Any half respectable coach/player should be able to overcome the above with ease.

[BballTim]

Outside the green goggle crowd, did anyone really think their ceiling would be much higher than a 6 or 7 seed in the East?

No, but this should be a pretty resounding answer about the ability of Rondo to be the best player on a good team, injury or no injury.

  I think the 2010 and 2012 playoff teams are a much more resounding answer. I'm not sure what you're going to learn when he's not healthy and he's on a bad team that's meaningful in any way.

[BballTim]

Rondo has to figure it out.  He has not had success without the big three.

Next year its his last yr before contract renewal. He will have to play better. Danny will give him a better team

If no progression rondo wont be resigned and traded by next years deadline. Maybe at this rate rondo will be the one who wants out

Rondo has gone from playing with the big three to playing with one of the worst rosters in the game. He is continuing to improve each game he plays. It is difficult to judge his game given how poor this roster is.

The lineup is not any worse vs hawks, suns, wizards

We have won majority of the games without rondo this year. One would think with  rondo we would do better. The injury excuse is dying game by game

been saying this all year, Rondo needs to be surrounded by shooters more than any PG in the league.  This team has zero...

  Not really. He needs to be healthy though.

[kozlodoev]

Outside the green goggle crowd, did anyone really think their ceiling would be much higher than a 6 or 7 seed in the East?

No, but this should be a pretty resounding answer about the ability of Rondo to be the best player on a good team, injury or no injury.

  I think the 2010 and 2012 playoff teams are a much more resounding answer. I'm not sure what you're going to learn when he's not healthy and he's on a bad team that's meaningful in any way.

You're going to learn that you underestimated how good Pierce and Garnett were.

[BballTim]

Outside the green goggle crowd, did anyone really think their ceiling would be much higher than a 6 or 7 seed in the East?

No, but this should be a pretty resounding answer about the ability of Rondo to be the best player on a good team, injury or no injury.

  I think the 2010 and 2012 playoff teams are a much more resounding answer. I'm not sure what you're going to learn when he's not healthy and he's on a bad team that's meaningful in any way.

You're going to learn that you underestimated how good Pierce and Garnett were.

  They were good. Not better than Rondo, but still quite good. Go back and watch the 2012 playoffs if you get a chance. The fact that Rondo's injured and doesn't have any above average teammates at the moment doesn't change the past.

[LarBrd33]

I am a pro tanker and I never thought this team was good enough to be a playoff team even with Rondo.

I have to admit I'm one of the pro-tankers who thought Rondo would convert this team from 26 win lotto squad to 36 win playoff squad.  It's pretty clear that I've been overrating Rondo for years.   

So far we are 2-11 in games he's played... with our only two wins coming against fellow bottomfeeders Orlando and Philly. 

Had I not been overrating Rondo's potential impact, I probably wouldn't have been so keen on trading him.  It appears he doesn't really move the needle.  Great passer, but he needs someone to pass to.  Glad we are hanging onto him. In a few years we could luck into a superstar and Rondo would be a nice role player to have here.  He'll also be a nice bridge between the KG/Pierce 3.5 year micro-dynasty and the Andrew WIggins 15 year true-dynasty.

Kind of like Earhardt Jr. without a car, eh?

Once we acquire actual stars to get the ball to, he'll be just fine in a Tiny Archibald sort of way.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over this.

The best case scenario has always been keeping Rondo and still landing a Top 5 pick.  I like Rondo a lot. 

I think ultimately, I just bought into some of the homer hype on this forum and thought that "superstar" Rondo would take this team from 26 wins to 36.  The reality is that this particular group of guys performed better with a semi-reliable scorer like Jordan Crawford running the point.  Our team has been complete garbage with post-prime Rondo doing his thing. And honestly, I think he's played well.  He's still getting his assists and rebounds really well for a point guard.  I just really REALLY overestimated the impact he'd make.   Had I realized we'd be an irrelevant bottom 5 team with or without Rondo this year, I wouldn't have been banging the "WE NEED TO TRADE HIM!" drum.  My premise was always based on the idea that we'd be sacrificing an opportunity to add a major asset by allowing Rondo to play us out of the lotto.   By far the most important asset on this team is that potential Top 5 pick.   Some of the big personalities on this forum successfully brainwashed me into believing that Rondo had the talent to take this squad of sitting ducks to the 8th seed.  Sub .500 record/8th seed this year is like a complete nightmare scenario if you ask me. 

Luckily, we're trash right now. 

Turns out, all my fears were overblown.  This team is Lolworthy without an all-star to put the ball through the hoop or a big man to stop the other team from scoring.   

In 3-5 years when this team is hopefully relevant again, I can see veteran Rondo being a key role player on that team.  He's a good glue guy to keep around...  he brings certain skills and intangibles that are valuable if you have players on the court to make up for his weaknesses.  It's not a negative thing having a Top 15 PG on the team.  Keeping him and having the assets to potentially land a true superstar is basically the best of both worlds.  And it's not like we have an alternative... Rondo doesn't command much on the trade market. 

We'll be fine.  Wiggins or bust.

[BballTim]

I am a pro tanker and I never thought this team was good enough to be a playoff team even with Rondo.

I have to admit I'm one of the pro-tankers who thought Rondo would convert this team from 26 win lotto squad to 36 win playoff squad.  It's pretty clear that I've been overrating Rondo for years.   

So far we are 2-11 in games he's played... with our only two wins coming against fellow bottomfeeders Orlando and Philly. 

Had I not been overrating Rondo's potential impact, I probably wouldn't have been so keen on trading him.  It appears he doesn't really move the needle.  Great passer, but he needs someone to pass to.  Glad we are hanging onto him. In a few years we could luck into a superstar and Rondo would be a nice role player to have here.  He'll also be a nice bridge between the KG/Pierce 3.5 year micro-dynasty and the Andrew WIggins 15 year true-dynasty.

Kind of like Earhardt Jr. without a car, eh?

Once we acquire actual stars to get the ball to, he'll be just fine in a Tiny Archibald sort of way.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over this.

  Kind of like Earhardt Jr. with a crappy car. With people telling everyone who will listen that the fact that he can't win Daytona with that crappy car means he isn't a good driver.

[ssspence]

Nothing surprising thus far.

• The veterans on the team aren't good
• The guy with the biggest ***** on the team was traded to GSW
• Bradley and Sully, neither of whom should have to carry any team, have been gimpy
• Rondo, who far too many expect far too much from, is still taking it slow

What's all this talk of the 6th or 7th seed? That was never in the cards. Position by position... this team is as soft as a Krispy Kreme.

[LarBrd33]

I am a pro tanker and I never thought this team was good enough to be a playoff team even with Rondo.

I have to admit I'm one of the pro-tankers who thought Rondo would convert this team from 26 win lotto squad to 36 win playoff squad.  It's pretty clear that I've been overrating Rondo for years.   

So far we are 2-11 in games he's played... with our only two wins coming against fellow bottomfeeders Orlando and Philly. 

Had I not been overrating Rondo's potential impact, I probably wouldn't have been so keen on trading him.  It appears he doesn't really move the needle.  Great passer, but he needs someone to pass to.  Glad we are hanging onto him. In a few years we could luck into a superstar and Rondo would be a nice role player to have here.  He'll also be a nice bridge between the KG/Pierce 3.5 year micro-dynasty and the Andrew WIggins 15 year true-dynasty.

Kind of like Earhardt Jr. without a car, eh?

Once we acquire actual stars to get the ball to, he'll be just fine in a Tiny Archibald sort of way.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over this.

  Kind of like Earhardt Jr. with a crappy car. With people telling everyone who will listen that the fact that he can't win Daytona with that crappy car means he isn't a good driver.

I've seen Earhardt Jr with a crappy car... He still finished 2nd one year.  It's called LeBron James on the Cavs.  50-66 wins + a Finals appearance.

This is more like Fat Lever running the 37 win 1987 Nuggets had Fat Lever not had an Alex English (28.9ppg) to pass the ball to.

I'm not knocking it... I'm just saying I dramatically overrated what kind of impact a Rondo/Poor Man's Jason Kidd/Fat Lever could have by themselves. 


Now all we need to do is get ourselves a Michael Adams and Alex English on this team and we'll be in line to win 44 games.

[BballTim]

I am a pro tanker and I never thought this team was good enough to be a playoff team even with Rondo.

I have to admit I'm one of the pro-tankers who thought Rondo would convert this team from 26 win lotto squad to 36 win playoff squad.  It's pretty clear that I've been overrating Rondo for years.   

So far we are 2-11 in games he's played... with our only two wins coming against fellow bottomfeeders Orlando and Philly. 

Had I not been overrating Rondo's potential impact, I probably wouldn't have been so keen on trading him.  It appears he doesn't really move the needle.  Great passer, but he needs someone to pass to.  Glad we are hanging onto him. In a few years we could luck into a superstar and Rondo would be a nice role player to have here.  He'll also be a nice bridge between the KG/Pierce 3.5 year micro-dynasty and the Andrew WIggins 15 year true-dynasty.

Kind of like Earhardt Jr. without a car, eh?

Once we acquire actual stars to get the ball to, he'll be just fine in a Tiny Archibald sort of way.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over this.

  Kind of like Earhardt Jr. with a crappy car. With people telling everyone who will listen that the fact that he can't win Daytona with that crappy car means he isn't a good driver.

I've seen Earhardt Jr with a crappy car... He still finished 2nd one year.  It's called LeBron James on the Cavs.  50-66 wins + a Finals appearance.

This is more like Fat Lever running the 37 win 1987 Nuggets had Fat Lever not had an Alex English (28.9ppg) to pass the ball to.

I'm not knocking it... I'm just saying I dramatically overrated what kind of impact a Rondo/Poor Man's Jason Kidd/Fat Lever could have by themselves.

  I guess this just balances out your dramatically underrating the kind of impact Rondo had on the 2012 team, or the impact he would have had on the 2013 team that wasn't going to miss Rondo at all in the playoffs.

[LarBrd33]

I am a pro tanker and I never thought this team was good enough to be a playoff team even with Rondo.

I have to admit I'm one of the pro-tankers who thought Rondo would convert this team from 26 win lotto squad to 36 win playoff squad.  It's pretty clear that I've been overrating Rondo for years.   

So far we are 2-11 in games he's played... with our only two wins coming against fellow bottomfeeders Orlando and Philly. 

Had I not been overrating Rondo's potential impact, I probably wouldn't have been so keen on trading him.  It appears he doesn't really move the needle.  Great passer, but he needs someone to pass to.  Glad we are hanging onto him. In a few years we could luck into a superstar and Rondo would be a nice role player to have here.  He'll also be a nice bridge between the KG/Pierce 3.5 year micro-dynasty and the Andrew WIggins 15 year true-dynasty.

Kind of like Earhardt Jr. without a car, eh?

Once we acquire actual stars to get the ball to, he'll be just fine in a Tiny Archibald sort of way.

I hope you don't lose any sleep over this.

  Kind of like Earhardt Jr. with a crappy car. With people telling everyone who will listen that the fact that he can't win Daytona with that crappy car means he isn't a good driver.

I've seen Earhardt Jr with a crappy car... He still finished 2nd one year.  It's called LeBron James on the Cavs.  50-66 wins + a Finals appearance.

This is more like Fat Lever running the 37 win 1987 Nuggets had Fat Lever not had an Alex English (28.9ppg) to pass the ball to.

I'm not knocking it... I'm just saying I dramatically overrated what kind of impact a Rondo/Poor Man's Jason Kidd/Fat Lever could have by themselves.

  I guess this just balances out your dramatically underrating the kind of impact Rondo had on the 2012 team, or the impact he would have had on the 2013 team that wasn't going to miss Rondo at all in the playoffs.

Actually... I've been comparing Rondo to Fat Lever for several years now.  It's a pretty great comparison.  There was a thread about it on here last week, actually.  I saw threads about it as far back as 2009. 

Rondo = Fat Lever.

Fat would have struggled with this crop of garbage too... but stick an 8-time all-star like Alex English next to him and another solid player like Michael Adams.. you got yourself a 44 win playoff also-ran.

Stick a proper superstar on this team and you might have a contender.

It's all good.  Let's land a Top 5 pick and go from there.

[Kane3387]

In response to the thread title.

That's why we're tanking.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Of course its not good enough. Even if you add Sullinger.

Especially when you have Gerald Wallace (not Crash, two different guys), Bradley and Bass as your starting five.

But with our situation and the assets we have compiled, we can upgrade the rest of the squad and be a much better team than this one.

[kozlodoev]

They were good. Not better than Rondo, but still quite good. Go back and watch the 2012 playoffs if you get a chance. The fact that Rondo's injured and doesn't have any above average teammates at the moment doesn't change the past.

The fact that when he got in trouble, Rondo had the ultimate safety net of just throwing the ball to Garnett or Pierce knowing it will result in an average shot more often than not is what makes all the difference.

And until 2013, both Pierce and Garnett were absolutely the better players.

[gar]

As has been said. We are missing a star caliber player, AB and some young talent Sully and KO not withstanding.