Can we just appreciate Rondo?

[cb8883]

Don't expect 2 first round picks for Rondo.  He's not a top 5 PG.  He's not even a top 20 PG.

1.   Paul
2.   Wall
3.   Curry
4.   Bledsoe
5.   Westbrook
6.   Irving
7.   Lilliard
8.   Lowry
9.   Parker
10.   D. Williams
11.   Teague
12.   K. Walker
13.   Lawson
14.   B. Jennings
15.   Holiday
16.   Conley
17.   B. Knight
18.   MCW
19.   Nelson
20.   I. Thomas
21.   Rondo

hahaha that's hilarious

The following players on this list are clearly better than Rondo:

* Paul

The following are players who are 'on par' with Rondo (i.e. you could argue better or worse):

* Wall
* Curry
* Westbrook
* Irving
* Parker
* D. Williams
* D Rose (when healthy)

The following are all clearly below Rondo:
* Bledsoe
* Lilliard
* Lowry
* Teague
* K. Walker
* Lawson
* B. Jennings
* Holiday
* Conley
* B. Knight
* MCW
* Nelson
* I. Thomas

That puts Rondo anywhere between top 2 and top 9, depending on your viewpoint. 

To declare Jameer Nelson above Rajon Rondo is one of the funniest things I've heard...ever.

This is almost as insane as Rondo being the 21st best PG in the league. You made me laugh out loud when you said Lillard is below Rondo and he's on the same level as Curry etc...just stop it. This is the type of homerism that is very popular in Boston. Just like Knick fans believe they can get anyone for pennies on the dollar because everyone is dying to play for a franchise that's been around 80 years and has less titles than the Miami Heat.

[SHAQATTACK]

Don't expect 2 first round picks for Rondo.  He's not a top 5 PG.  He's not even a top 20 PG.

1.   Paul
2.   Wall
3.   Curry
4.   Bledsoe
5.   Westbrook
6.   Irving
7.   Lilliard
8.   Lowry
9.   Parker
10.   D. Williams
11.   Teague
12.   K. Walker
13.   Lawson
14.   B. Jennings
15.   Holiday
16.   Conley
17.   B. Knight
18.   MCW
19.   Nelson
20.   I. Thomas
21.   Rondo

What comic book is this out of?

[mmmmm]

Don't expect 2 first round picks for Rondo.  He's not a top 5 PG.  He's not even a top 20 PG.

1.   Paul
2.   Wall
3.   Curry
4.   Bledsoe
5.   Westbrook
6.   Irving
7.   Lilliard
8.   Lowry
9.   Parker
10.   D. Williams
11.   Teague
12.   K. Walker
13.   Lawson
14.   B. Jennings
15.   Holiday
16.   Conley
17.   B. Knight
18.   MCW
19.   Nelson
20.   I. Thomas
21.   Rondo

hahaha that's hilarious

The following players on this list are clearly better than Rondo:

* Paul

The following are players who are 'on par' with Rondo (i.e. you could argue better or worse):

* Wall
* Curry
* Westbrook
* Irving
* Parker
* D. Williams
* D Rose (when healthy)

The following are all clearly below Rondo:
* Bledsoe
* Lilliard
* Lowry
* Teague
* K. Walker
* Lawson
* B. Jennings
* Holiday
* Conley
* B. Knight
* MCW
* Nelson
* I. Thomas

That puts Rondo anywhere between top 2 and top 9, depending on your viewpoint. 

To declare Jameer Nelson above Rajon Rondo is one of the funniest things I've heard...ever.

This is almost as insane as Rondo being the 21st best PG in the league. You made me laugh out loud when you said Lillard is below Rondo and he's on the same level as Curry etc...just stop it. This is the type of homerism that is very popular in Boston. Just like Knick fans believe they can get anyone for pennies on the dollar because everyone is dying to play for a franchise that's been around 80 years and has less titles than the Miami Heat.

Lillard is a great young player, and maybe someday he will, indeed be a better PG than Rondo.  But no, no he is not right now.

Through direct scoring and assists, Lillard is creating about 33.4 points per game (which also happens to be his per-36 rate since he is playing 36 mpg).   He grabs about 3.6 rebounds and 0.7 steals per 36.  He also commits 2.5 PFs per 36.

Even with relatively subdued numbers in the 10 games he's back from rehab, still a little slow of foot, Rondo has better Per-36 numbers in ALL those categories.  Rondo has been creating points at a rate of 34 per-36.  He's also grabbed 6.4 rebounds, 1.9 steals and committed just 1.1 PF per 36.

Sure, Rondo's per-game numbers are a bit less, because he's only averaged 27.2 mpg so far.  But that's certain to change over time.

Rondo's also likely to increase his point-creation rates.   In recent years he's usually been up close to 40 points-created per-36.  I see no reason not to expect him to return to that level.    That literally puts Rondo as far ahead of Lillard in point-creation as Chris Paul is over RR & Westbrook (i.e., crimson_stallions' tiers are pretty reasonable).

Lillard also is more reliant on his own shooting, at a low 43% FG% rate to maintain his scoring.  Yes, he is taking efficient 3PT shots so his eFG% is a solid .513.   But it also means he is generating a lot of misses - 9 missed shots per game.  On average, 6-7 of those will be grabbed by the defense.

Rondo, comparatively, has a solid career eFG% of .489 (.497 last year) on 48% shooting.  He averages only about 5 missed shots per game.  On average, about 3.5 of those will be grabbed by the defense.

Lillard has a long way to go in improving his game to get to Rondo's level.   He may get there.  He may not.

You are abrasively dismissive of others being blinded by 'homerism', yet these numbers are not fans of any team.   

I think you might be suffering from your own extreme biases.

[BballTim]

Don't expect 2 first round picks for Rondo.  He's not a top 5 PG.  He's not even a top 20 PG.

1.   Paul
2.   Wall
3.   Curry
4.   Bledsoe
5.   Westbrook
6.   Irving
7.   Lilliard
8.   Lowry
9.   Parker
10.   D. Williams
11.   Teague
12.   K. Walker
13.   Lawson
14.   B. Jennings
15.   Holiday
16.   Conley
17.   B. Knight
18.   MCW
19.   Nelson
20.   I. Thomas
21.   Rondo

hahaha that's hilarious

The following players on this list are clearly better than Rondo:

* Paul

The following are players who are 'on par' with Rondo (i.e. you could argue better or worse):

* Wall
* Curry
* Westbrook
* Irving
* Parker
* D. Williams
* D Rose (when healthy)

The following are all clearly below Rondo:
* Bledsoe
* Lilliard
* Lowry
* Teague
* K. Walker
* Lawson
* B. Jennings
* Holiday
* Conley
* B. Knight
* MCW
* Nelson
* I. Thomas

That puts Rondo anywhere between top 2 and top 9, depending on your viewpoint. 

To declare Jameer Nelson above Rajon Rondo is one of the funniest things I've heard...ever.

This is almost as insane as Rondo being the 21st best PG in the league. You made me laugh out loud when you said Lillard is below Rondo and he's on the same level as Curry etc...just stop it. This is the type of homerism that is very popular in Boston. Just like Knick fans believe they can get anyone for pennies on the dollar because everyone is dying to play for a franchise that's been around 80 years and has less titles than the Miami Heat.

  Rondo's probably more popular outside of Boston than among celts fans. As for Rondo/Lillard, I'd guess that the person you're disagreeing with realizes that there's more to being a point guard than scoring, which is probably about all Lillard's really good at.

[mnshyn]

"You know, you can't please all the people all the time... and last night, all those people were at my show all those people are on CelticsBlog." - Mitch Hedberg

[gpap]

Absolutely.

1..2....3

Ok, can we trade him now? (LOL)

[GreenWarrior]

I just wonder in a town that has a hard time attracting free agents, what's the allure for them to come here if rondo's gone? there was no way of landing ray allen & KG in a trade in '07-'08 if pierce wasn't here. no player will want to be traded here if there isn't a star here.

I think the only way we trade rondo is if the deal is really outrageous in our favor. 

   

[esel1000]

I just wonder in a town that has a hard time attracting free agents, what's the allure for them to come here if rondo's gone? there was no way of landing ray allen & KG in a trade in '07-'08 if pierce wasn't here. no player will want to be traded here if there isn't a star here.

I think the only way we trade rondo is if the deal is really outrageous in our favor. 

 

Exactly what I've been saying, tp

[Snakehead]

  Rondo's probably more popular outside of Boston than among celts fans. As for Rondo/Lillard, I'd guess that the person you're disagreeing with realizes that there's more to being a point guard than scoring, which is probably about all Lillard's really good at.

I think the divide on Rondo is almost national it feels like.  Either you get him or you don't, and you only see his weaknesses and think that defines him.

Some fan bases do seem to appreciate him a lot.  Lakers and Knicks chief among them.  Ziller wrote some very glowing things about Rondo (having him as the best passer, carrying the torch from Kidd and Nash) which was nice to read.

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.  So it feels that way but a lot of Celtics fans out there really love Rondo.  My friends and I would be devastated if he was traded even if it was for value.

[LooseCannon]

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.

Or some anti-Rondo posters just post a lot.

[Snakehead]

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.

Or some anti-Rondo posters just post a lot.

Yeah that's what I'm getting at.

[CoachBo]

  Rondo's probably more popular outside of Boston than among celts fans. As for Rondo/Lillard, I'd guess that the person you're disagreeing with realizes that there's more to being a point guard than scoring, which is probably about all Lillard's really good at.

I think the divide on Rondo is almost national it feels like.  Either you get him or you don't, and you only see his weaknesses and think that defines him.

Some fan bases do seem to appreciate him a lot.  Lakers and Knicks chief among them.  Ziller wrote some very glowing things about Rondo (having him as the best passer, carrying the torch from Kidd and Nash) which was nice to read.

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.  So it feels that way but a lot of Celtics fans out there really love Rondo.  My friends and I would be devastated if he was traded even if it was for value.

It took me 20 minutes to stop laughing at the above.

[Snakehead]

  Rondo's probably more popular outside of Boston than among celts fans. As for Rondo/Lillard, I'd guess that the person you're disagreeing with realizes that there's more to being a point guard than scoring, which is probably about all Lillard's really good at.

I think the divide on Rondo is almost national it feels like.  Either you get him or you don't, and you only see his weaknesses and think that defines him.

Some fan bases do seem to appreciate him a lot.  Lakers and Knicks chief among them.  Ziller wrote some very glowing things about Rondo (having him as the best passer, carrying the torch from Kidd and Nash) which was nice to read.

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.  So it feels that way but a lot of Celtics fans out there really love Rondo.  My friends and I would be devastated if he was traded even if it was for value.

It took me 20 minutes to stop laughing at the above.

Are you going to be okay or should I call the doctors?

[LilRip]

I just wonder in a town that has a hard time attracting free agents, what's the allure for them to come here if rondo's gone? there was no way of landing ray allen & KG in a trade in '07-'08 if pierce wasn't here. no player will want to be traded here if there isn't a star here.

I think the only way we trade rondo is if the deal is really outrageous in our favor. 

hmm, except:
1) Pierce was better than Rondo
2) KG already balked at coming here when it was just Pierce and said he wouldn't resign after his contract was up. Ainge wouldn't do the deal if it meant a one-year KG rental. It took the Allen trade to make everything work.
3) Allen had no choice of coming here or not. He wasn't a FA. He was a 32-yr old SG who just came off surgery on both ankles - a surgery in which SGs historically never came back the same player again, except for Reggie Miller (and fortunately, now Ray Allen too). Add to that, Seattle just "won" the lottery with Durant and were going on full rebuild/youth mode (they let Rashard go as well). Plus, there was the whole ownership issues.

as for your last statement, i wish all trades would be outrageously in our favor as well. i'd take Paul George for Gerald Wallace too.

[BballTim]

  Rondo's probably more popular outside of Boston than among celts fans. As for Rondo/Lillard, I'd guess that the person you're disagreeing with realizes that there's more to being a point guard than scoring, which is probably about all Lillard's really good at.

I think the divide on Rondo is almost national it feels like.  Either you get him or you don't, and you only see his weaknesses and think that defines him.

Some fan bases do seem to appreciate him a lot.  Lakers and Knicks chief among them.  Ziller wrote some very glowing things about Rondo (having him as the best passer, carrying the torch from Kidd and Nash) which was nice to read.

I think a big part of it on here is just this forum seems to skew quite anti-Rondo.  So it feels that way but a lot of Celtics fans out there really love Rondo.  My friends and I would be devastated if he was traded even if it was for value.

It took me 20 minutes to stop laughing at the above.

Are you going to be okay or should I call the doctors?

  He's always like that. No need for 911.