Can we just appreciate Rondo?

[Blaze4G]

Rondo isn't a top 5 point guard.

  He has been for years. He might not be at the moment but he should be again by the time he's healthy.

Since we're not taking injuries into account here I'd still take Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Lillard, Wall, Irving and Paul over RR.

Lillard, Irving, and Wall? Wall still has some growing up to do, Irving is easily one of the most overrated players in the league, and Lillard is definitely not better than Rondo. Sure, he can shoot 3s better but that's about it. Please stop. Rose will likely never be the elite player he once was.

I'm taking Rondo in the playoffs over all of them except Paul, and even then Paul has never won anything or even gotten to a conference finals.

I get that you're a Celtic's fan like all of us and can tend to over value your own players. But let's be realistic here, Wall is having a great season scoring the ball and creating for his teammates just as Lillard is. People on this board act like a PG who has the ability to score is a bad thing, its not.

The ability to get 20 ppg is a great asset for any player to have and RR just doesn't have it. RR's a great play maker, maybe the best in the NBA, but the gap between his scoring and the others scoring is so much larger than the gap between RR's passing abilities and the other great point guards in the league.

Also to use the Ring as a case for Rajon Rondo over Paul is ridiculous, put Paul on that team instead of Rondo and they win two more titles.

First off,I agree with you on wall, he has a good all around game and I would rank him in my top 5. However I would never put lillard in my top 5, atleast not at this point. All you and many other focus on is PPG, Lillard is HORRIBLE on defense. (George hill going for 37 on him plus many other examples). In addition Lillard fg% is meh at best, 41% for the season?
The ability for a PG to score 20 is all good and dandy but its not good when they allow the opposing guard to blow up on them.
In regards to cp3 and putting him in the same situation as rondo when he won his ring, come on! You are trying to tell me that the team cp3 currently has from last season and this season is not a good team? Put a healthy rondo on clippers team and watch him take them to the finals then since you want to make assumptions.
The point is Rondo > cp3 when it comes to playoffs.

CP3 Post season stats for 2012-2013
4 rebounds, 6.3 assist, 22.8 points, 1.8 steals

Rondo post season 2011-2012 stats (since he was injured last post season)
6.7 rebounds, 11.9 assist, 17.3 points, 2.4 steals
In addition his point against the Heat during that playoff series was 21.

CP3 had better fg% and  ft% but the point is Rondo has taken over playoff games and carry his team to victory which cp3 has yet to do.

If you would rather a player that plays better during regular season and crumbles comes playoffs then by all means go right ahead.

Look at KG and PP now; they are having career lows, you can blame age, but I believe the real reason is Rondo was hiding their age rather than kg and PP making rondo look good.

[Blaze4G]

PGs I would absolutely want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard (no defense and shoot inefficiently)
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)(seems to be injury prone so nope)
Wall I like wall and would have him in my top 5.
MCW  cant shoot the ball, thats what many persons here argue against rondo and you want MCW? okay then.
Parker I would have him in my top 5.
Curry again in my top 5
Irving not sure about irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo. Do not want to be the organization killed by his max contract. Look what the big 3 did for Perkins. Got him paid well over market value. Same thing with Rondo on his next deal. He's going to get a max deal on his reputation alone and I hope the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him.

Why couldnt it be that Rondo made the big 3 look better? specifically in the 2011-2012 season? Why is PP and KG all of a sudden having career season lows? Because Rondo is not there to set them up. PP and KG being around rondo made them alot better.

cp3, wall, westbrook, curry, rondo, parker would be my top 5(I know I list 6 cant decide who to take out). curry being my first pick.

[GreenWarrior]

PGs I would absolutely want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)
Wall (Finally living up to his potential)
MCW (will be a beast the next few years)
Parker
Curry
Irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo.

and yet many outside of celtic nation felt rondo was the best player during our contending seasons.

we can all debate all of this till we're blue in the face but the fact is score-first pg's have yet to ever truly be successful in being a part of a championship team(i'll even give anyone tony parker as a score 1st pg if they want, but he's not) till they do i'll be glad with what rondo brings to the table.

I know the grass is always greener and the likelihood is that rondo will be traded. maybe we'll get a score-first pg to replace him and we'll see how that turns out.

[LarBrd33]

I'm going to miss these threads. 

  I daresay. You've probably started more threads about Rondo than anyone else on the blog.

This is making me emotional.  I can't do this right now.

[GreenFaith1819]

I appreciate Rondo.

To me, he is a once-in-lifetime player, even with his supposed warts.

Even the superstars have warts.

But Rondo is special.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rup5V8Jxz9k

Not often that you hear "That play was Bird-Like"....

[Boris Badenov]

Honestly, what is the point of these top 5 lists?

I think the critical questions are (a) whether Rondo's good enough to be a PG on a championship team, and (b) what kinds of players he needs around him.

We already have our answer on (a). In fact, if Rondo returns to pre-injury form he's better than he was when he won a ring.

(B) is a tougher question, but we already have part of the answer. Rondo needs a couple of scorers and would be well served by having some 3 point shooters on the floor. He fits well in a system that emphasizes defense and half-court execution. (He might fit in other systems too but we have evidence on this point). If he is surrounded by two All-Stars and some quality role players in a good system, that's a contending team - again, we know this because we've seen it happen.

The "top 5 list" issue is irrelevant because we care about building a championship team, and we will likely never be doing it with one of the players on those lists above - unless you think we might trade Rondo for Irving, for example - in which case the questions I asked become the relevant ones again, but with Irving. It's not like replacing the "6th best" PG with the "3rd best" necessarily addresses the fundamental "can we win a ring?" question.

For example, a "better" player on some list might be easier or harder to surround with the right complementary pieces, given available talent and its price in the market. Again, these lists don't really tell us what we want to know.

Whether we should trade Rondo for [insert players/picks X] in order to get ring 18 is an interesting question and maybe the most important one Danny faces right now, but again, I don't see it as having anything to do with whether Rondo's 3rd, 5th or 7th on some list right now.

[LarBrd33]

... technically, you don't even need a PG to win a championship.

But yeah.  Best case scenario someone will step up to the plate on the 20th and Ainge will find a reason to keep Rondo and still accomplish his goals.

[Boris Badenov]

... technically, you don't even need a PG to win a championship.

But yeah.  Best case scenario someone will step up to the plate on the 20th and Ainge will find a reason to keep Rondo and still accomplish his goals.

You're right. But you do need a different set of players with and without Rondo.

I'm firmly of the mind that they won't trade him. I would bet that Danny is listening to offers and asking for double what anyone is willing to give him. This is his pattern.

You can come back and tell me "I told you so" after the deadline if I'm wrong, and I'll give you a TP for being some combination of lucky and smart.

This is of course if the deal is Rondo for three prospects and getting rid of Wallace, or some other variant of your preferred deals. Rondo for a young superstar would, I think, surprise everyone.

[Kc2135]

I think people forget how big this guy plays on the big stage. He gets better in the postseason when defense gets tougher, and that's hard to do. 

[BballTim]

... technically, you don't even need a PG to win a championship.

But yeah.  Best case scenario someone will step up to the plate on the 20th and Ainge will find a reason to keep Rondo and still accomplish his goals.

  It's absolutely true you don't need a point guard to win a title. All we need to do is get a MJ or LeBron or Kobe instead. No problem.

  Also, there's no hard reason to believe that the 20th is a defining moment. PP and KG were old enough that Danny had to fish or cut bait. That's not the case with Rondo.

[TheTruthFot18]

PGs I would absolutely want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)
Wall (Finally living up to his potential)
MCW (will be a beast the next few years)
Parker
Curry
Irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo. Do not want to be the organization killed by his max contract. Look what the big 3 did for Perkins. Got him paid well over market value. Same thing with Rondo on his next deal. He's going to get a max deal on his reputation alone and I hope the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him.

CP3, Westbrook, and Curry are the only for sure picks over Rondo. The rest either have one or a combination of issues such as age, injury, maturity, hyped up youngsters, and inconsistency for someone who is supposed to be elite.

[LarBrd33]

... technically, you don't even need a PG to win a championship.

But yeah.  Best case scenario someone will step up to the plate on the 20th and Ainge will find a reason to keep Rondo and still accomplish his goals.

  It's absolutely true you don't need a point guard to win a title. All we need to do is get a MJ or LeBron or Kobe instead. No problem.

Totally agree.

[bobbyv]

PGs I would absolutely want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)
Wall (Finally living up to his potential)
MCW (will be a beast the next few years)
Parker
Curry
Irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo. Do not want to be the organization killed by his max contract. Look what the big 3 did for Perkins. Got him paid well over market value. Same thing with Rondo on his next deal. He's going to get a max deal on his reputation alone and I hope the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him.

CP3, Westbrook, and Curry are the only for sure picks over Rondo. The rest either have one or a combination of issues such as age, injury, maturity, hyped up youngsters, and inconsistency for someone who is supposed to be elite.

This

[Vox_Populi]

Honestly, what is the point of these top 5 lists?

I think the critical questions are (a) whether Rondo's good enough to be a PG on a championship team, and (b) what kinds of players he needs around him.

We already have our answer on (a). In fact, if Rondo returns to pre-injury form he's better than he was when he won a ring.

(B) is a tougher question, but we already have part of the answer. Rondo needs a couple of scorers and would be well served by having some 3 point shooters on the floor. He fits well in a system that emphasizes defense and half-court execution. (He might fit in other systems too but we have evidence on this point). If he is surrounded by two All-Stars and some quality role players in a good system, that's a contending team - again, we know this because we've seen it happen.

The "top 5 list" issue is irrelevant because we care about building a championship team, and we will likely never be doing it with one of the players on those lists above - unless you think we might trade Rondo for Irving, for example - in which case the questions I asked become the relevant ones again, but with Irving. It's not like replacing the "6th best" PG with the "3rd best" necessarily addresses the fundamental "can we win a ring?" question.

For example, a "better" player on some list might be easier or harder to surround with the right complementary pieces, given available talent and its price in the market. Again, these lists don't really tell us what we want to know.

Whether we should trade Rondo for [insert players/picks X] in order to get ring 18 is an interesting question and maybe the most important one Danny faces right now, but again, I don't see it as having anything to do with whether Rondo's 3rd, 5th or 7th on some list right now.

[RJ87]

PGs I would absolutly want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)
Wall (Finally living up to his potential)
MCW (will be a beast the next few years)
Parker
Curry
Irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo. Do not want to be the organization killed by his max contract. Look what the big 3 did for Perkins. Got him paid well over market value. Same thing with Rondo on his next deal. He's going to get a max deal on his reputation alone and I hope the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him.

I'm just gonna take everything you post from now on with a gigantic grain of salt since that post of yours claiming we should've traded Paul Pierce (and banner 17) to tank for Drose.

With that said, the only PGs I'd take over Rondo are CP3 and Tony Parker. A healthy Rose, maybe. The way a lot of people harp on Ro do you can very much pick apart any other PGs game. People who complain about Rondo's effort, attitude and/or maturity and then clamor for Irving aren't really watching much of the Cavs are they?

The grass is always greener...