Can we just appreciate Rondo?

[Eddie20]

Rondo's a good 2nd piece on a team, but has too many scoring limitations to be the top guy. You need a guy that you can put in iso's and can either score for himself or cause double teams which creates looks for open teammates. That's pretty much the name of the game now. It used to be about big men, but now it's about having a transcendent player, regardless of position, that can take over in the 4th.

  Even if you don't like Rondo there's no way you can watch games and come away saying he can't create looks for open teammates. He does it all the time, frequently with dribble penetration. Check out the 2012 playoffs if you can, and look for all the plays where Rondo draws KG's defender towards him and then passes the ball to KG for an open jumper. That alone must have happened 4-5 times a game.

I do like Rondo, but I'm all about the C's, not a particular player. If trading Rondo is for the betterment of our team then it's "thanks for the memories".

What I'm saying is drawing the double. Rondo is limited offensively, so he won't ever command a double team. Plus if he drives to the rim his lack of free throw shooting also becomes a detriment to  our team. So Rondo needs plenty of good shooting offensive players to  cover up those flaws and allow him to thrive.

[BballTim]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

  True. The title of the thread is probably more apt than it was intended to be. Some poster really can't appreciate Rondo. Everybody knows he's not a great shooter. It was very evident when he was younger (and a worse shot), they read about it all the time and the stats tend to bear it out. Likewise, you won't get much disagreement if you claim he's a poor foul shooter.

  Beyond that it's a little murky. Rondo's arguably the best passer in the league, is great at dictating the pace of the game and probably runs an offense better than anyone. Also the things he does to get players open, or even his defense compared to other point guards. Those things aren't as easy to see, can't be easily quantified in stats, an yet have a big impact on the game.

  IMO (and back to the thread title), the people who respond to claims that Rondo's very good at some of the things that I listed with statements like "all the better point guards are good at them" or "that's his job, he's a point guard" erally can't appreciate Rondo. Same with the people who said he'd struggle without Ray to space the floor, or he'd struggle mightily to get assists without "future HOFers".

[Jailan34]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

Paul averages most assists per season over his career than Rondo does.

[BballTim]

Rondo's a good 2nd piece on a team, but has too many scoring limitations to be the top guy. You need a guy that you can put in iso's and can either score for himself or cause double teams which creates looks for open teammates. That's pretty much the name of the game now. It used to be about big men, but now it's about having a transcendent player, regardless of position, that can take over in the 4th.

  Even if you don't like Rondo there's no way you can watch games and come away saying he can't create looks for open teammates. He does it all the time, frequently with dribble penetration. Check out the 2012 playoffs if you can, and look for all the plays where Rondo draws KG's defender towards him and then passes the ball to KG for an open jumper. That alone must have happened 4-5 times a game.

I do like Rondo, but I'm all about the C's, not a particular player. If trading Rondo is for the betterment of our team then it's "thanks for the memories".

What I'm saying is drawing the double. Rondo is limited offensively, so he won't ever command a double team. Plus if he drives to the rim his lack of free throw shooting also becomes a detriment to  our team. So Rondo needs plenty of good shooting offensive players to  cover up those flaws and allow him to thrive.

  Again, though, you're saying that Rondo is limited offensively so he can't command a double team, yet if you watch the games you've seen him draw defenders away from players like KG and Bass with his dribble penetration hundreds of times. You've also seen him among the league leaders for point guards in terms of most shots at the rim and highest fg% at the rim multiple times.

[BballTim]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

Paul averages most assists per season over his career than Rondo does.

  Because Paul, a top 5 pick in the draft, was a much more finished product when he came into the league than Rondo. Rondo's been about 1.3 apg better than CP over the last 3+ seasons and almost 3 apg better in the playoffs in that time frame. CP being a better passer than Rondo in 07 or 08 doesn't have a ton to do with the current state of affairs.

[Jailan34]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

Paul averages most assists per season over his career than Rondo does.

  Because Paul, a top 5 pick in the draft, was a much more finished product when he came into the league than Rondo. Rondo's been about 1.3 apg better than CP over the last 3+ seasons and almost 3 apg better in the playoffs in that time frame. CP being a better passer than Rondo in 07 or 08 doesn't have a ton to do with the current state of affairs.

The fact that the assists are even comparable when all RR has done the past few years was pad his assist stats while Paul is capable of carrying an offense is something that can't be ignored. They aren't on the same level.

[bobbyv]

Rondo isn't a top 5 point guard.

  He has been for years. He might not be at the moment but he should be again by the time he's healthy.

Since we're not taking injuries into account here I'd still take Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Lillard, Wall, Irving and Paul over RR.

Lillard, Irving, and Wall? Wall still has some growing up to do, Irving is easily one of the most overrated players in the league, and Lillard is definitely not better than Rondo. Sure, he can shoot 3s better but that's about it. Please stop. Rose will likely never be the elite player he once was.

I'm taking Rondo in the playoffs over all of them except Paul, and even then Paul has never won anything or even gotten to a conference finals.

[Jailan34]

Rondo isn't a top 5 point guard.

  He has been for years. He might not be at the moment but he should be again by the time he's healthy.

Since we're not taking injuries into account here I'd still take Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Lillard, Wall, Irving and Paul over RR.

Lillard, Irving, and Wall? Wall still has some growing up to do, Irving is easily one of the most overrated players in the league, and Lillard is definitely not better than Rondo. Sure, he can shoot 3s better but that's about it. Please stop. Rose will likely never be the elite player he once was.

I'm taking Rondo in the playoffs over all of them except Paul, and even then Paul has never won anything or even gotten to a conference finals.

I get that you're a Celtic's fan like all of us and can tend to over value your own players. But let's be realistic here, Wall is having a great season scoring the ball and creating for his teammates just as Lillard is. People on this board act like a PG who has the ability to score is a bad thing, its not.

The ability to get 20 ppg is a great asset for any player to have and RR just doesn't have it. RR's a great play maker, maybe the best in the NBA, but the gap between his scoring and the others scoring is so much larger than the gap between RR's passing abilities and the other great point guards in the league.

Also to use the Ring as a case for Rajon Rondo over Paul is ridiculous, put Paul on that team instead of Rondo and they win two more titles.

[GreenWarrior]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

Paul averages most assists per season over his career than Rondo does.

while not being a "stat guy" a healthy rondo is probably a better traditional "point guard" than all those others you mentioned. if you're looking for a "scorer" at pg then I guess it comes down to what someone prefers. but then again I can't remember the last time a score-first pg was part of a championship team. all of those guys you mentioned so far are all flash and no substance.

rondo imo goes beyond all the numbers anyone wants to throw out there. I don't care about the "stat-padding" or "he doesn't play hard all the time" or "can't shoot" or "whatever". that's all nonsense that local fans and local media harp on because he's not loved by the national media the way paul, westbrook, rose, etc. are.

the truth is even if all those things were/are true, rondo in the regular season even if he's slightly better than average(which he's not) he's still better or on par with the rest of the top PG's in the league. in the playoffs he raises his game and the rest of his teammates - FACT!   

and with staying with the theme of the title of the thread. we should just appreciate Rondo.

[BballTim]

It feels like a lot of people on this board want to get rid of a top 5 PG.

stop right there! that's the problem, a fair share of the Celtics community doesn't acknowledge rondo as a top 5 PG. never have, never will. because he doesn't score like rose or chris paul.

Paul averages most assists per season over his career than Rondo does.

  Because Paul, a top 5 pick in the draft, was a much more finished product when he came into the league than Rondo. Rondo's been about 1.3 apg better than CP over the last 3+ seasons and almost 3 apg better in the playoffs in that time frame. CP being a better passer than Rondo in 07 or 08 doesn't have a ton to do with the current state of affairs.

The fact that the assists are even comparable when all RR has done the past few years was pad his assist stats while Paul is capable of carrying an offense is something that can't be ignored. They aren't on the same level.

  "Rondo padding his assist stats" is just hogwash you hear from people who don't like Rondo and are trying to dismiss his accomplishments. Also, where's your evidence that Rondo can't carry an offense?

[BballTim]

Rondo isn't a top 5 point guard.

  He has been for years. He might not be at the moment but he should be again by the time he's healthy.

Since we're not taking injuries into account here I'd still take Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Lillard, Wall, Irving and Paul over RR.

Lillard, Irving, and Wall? Wall still has some growing up to do, Irving is easily one of the most overrated players in the league, and Lillard is definitely not better than Rondo. Sure, he can shoot 3s better but that's about it. Please stop. Rose will likely never be the elite player he once was.

I'm taking Rondo in the playoffs over all of them except Paul, and even then Paul has never won anything or even gotten to a conference finals.

I get that you're a Celtic's fan like all of us and can tend to over value your own players. But let's be realistic here, Wall is having a great season scoring the ball and creating for his teammates just as Lillard is. People on this board act like a PG who has the ability to score is a bad thing, its not.

The ability to get 20 ppg is a great asset for any player to have and RR just doesn't have it. RR's a great play maker, maybe the best in the NBA, but the gap between his scoring and the others scoring is so much larger than the gap between RR's passing abilities and the other great point guards in the league.

  This isn't true at all and it goes to my earlier point. If you really watch some of the point guards that you listed run an offense or pass the ball there's no comparison between them and Rondo.

Also to use the Ring as a case for Rajon Rondo over Paul is ridiculous, put Paul on that team instead of Rondo and they win two more titles.

 
  Doubtful. In fact it's more likely we'd have less playoff success with CP. He's clearly been better than Rondo during the season but in the playoffs the difference is less if it's there at all. I think that if you put Rondo on the Clips the last few years they'd be at least as likely to do better as the Celts would have with CP.

[LarBrd33]

I'm going to miss these threads. 

[LooseCannon]

I'm going to miss these threads. 

You'll still have plenty next season.

[BballTim]

I'm going to miss these threads. 

  I daresay. You've probably started more threads about Rondo than anyone else on the blog.

[cb8883]

PGs I would absolutely want over Rondo

CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Rose (healthy)
Wall (Finally living up to his potential)
MCW (will be a beast the next few years)
Parker
Curry
Irving

I view Rondo and D-Will the same. 2 very overrated PGs that have or will have max contracts given to them when they aren't max level players.

Being around the big 3 made him a lot better than what his talent level is. Danny would be wise to sell high. Unless you surround him with all stars we've seen the best of Rondo. Do not want to be the organization killed by his max contract. Look what the big 3 did for Perkins. Got him paid well over market value. Same thing with Rondo on his next deal. He's going to get a max deal on his reputation alone and I hope the Lakers are dumb enough to pay him.