Was rondo "playing hard" tonight?

[BballTim]

Dos do you know what winning plays mean? Hustle plays?

No, I have no idea what that is. Does it have anything to do with The Will To Win or The Heart Of A Champion?

maybe Leaving It All On The Floor?

  Anything's Possible!!!!!

[guava_wrench]

Every player in the NBA can play harder. The problem is they won't be able to play 30+ minutes that way. Rondo could sprint every play. But no one can sprint for 30 mins. Even super-intense KG doesn't sprint down the court each time. There is a point at which 'playing harder' is actually playing stupid.

He played at the intensity level he should play at.

[guava_wrench]

Dos do you know what winning plays mean? Hustle plays?

No, I have no idea what that is. Does it have anything to do with The Will To Win or The Heart Of A Champion?

maybe Leaving It All On The Floor?

  Anything's Possible!!!!!

Ahh. We need more hackneyed cliches! That is the key.

The best part about vague cliches is that you can apply them whenever you like and they are immune to rebuttal because they aren't really saying anything meaningful.

[mmmmm]

Rondo also has to adjust to this new offense. Doc had strict set plays and assigned options if the initial play broke down with secondary and tertiary targets available and to be searched out if the play broke down. As floor general leading that type of offense, Rondo thrived.

This offense is more college oriented with free flow ball movement, a de-emphasis on strict set plays with strict final options for that play. Instead the ball moves freely through all hands and it emphasizes the individual taking the initiative to create his offense.

I just feel compelled to say:  This offense sucks.

I personally hope Stevens only implemented it in order to get through the first half of the season without a real point guard.   Because this offense will never work well in the NBA.

It is too inefficient.    In the NBA it is important to extract every drop of efficiency out of the roster that you have.  Thus you want to design your offense to get more shots out of your most efficient players and from high percentage looks.    Passing the ball around and letting 'just anybody' decide they are open and should take a shot sounds nice and egalitarian.   But it means too many shots will end up being taken by inefficient scorers.

The fact that our offense is at or near the bottom in nearly every important category is telling that this offense doesn't work.

I like Stevens a lot.  I like his process oriented approach.  I just hate the offense we have used most of this year.   I really, really really hope he intends to change it.

[mmmmm]

Rondo also has to adjust to this new offense. Doc had strict set plays and assigned options if the initial play broke down with secondary and tertiary targets available and to be searched out if the play broke down. As floor general leading that type of offense, Rondo thrived.

This offense is more college oriented with free flow ball movement, a de-emphasis on strict set plays with strict final options for that play. Instead the ball moves freely through all hands and it emphasizes the individual taking the initiative to create his offense.

Rondo's still getting used to that because its going to mean the ball not being in his hands as much and its going to mean Rondo shooting a lot more in the half court sets, especially given our lack of low post threats and quality bigs.

I am wondering if this type offense really utilizes Rondo skill set as well as it can be utilized. Rondo with a better outside shot and three point shot might be better suited to a high screen pick and roll and pick and pop type offense with set plays and defined roles in the offense rather than moving the ball around until someone finds an opening and then creates a shot.

Going to take a bunch more of seeing Rondo play under Stevens to see if what I am seeing now is right.

Good eye. Though stevens style cant be pinned down to being college style ball. The miami heat and pacers also play this way

That last statement is not within a thousand miles of being true.

The Heat have exactly THREE players getting the vast majority of their shots.   Only James (17), Wade (14) and Bosh (12.1) take over 10 shots per game.   Next up is Ray, way down at only 7.2 shots per game.   The Heat make heavy USG of James (30%) and Wade (27%) in their offense.  Of their rotaion players, Bosh is the ONLY other player with a USG over 17.2%.

They run their offense to feature THOSE three guys because those guys are their most efficient weapons.

Similarly, Indiana also only has THREE guys in double-figures for shots per game:  George (17.3), West (11.6) and Stephenson (11.3).   They, again, rely heavily on George with a USG of 28.2% in their offense.  They do have several guys all right around 19-20% USG, at least touching the ball on offense, but they aren't taking the bulk of the shots.

 Those first three guys are.

If you comparatively look at the Celtics, you find that the Celtics have _nobody_ getting more than 13.8 FGA/game (Green) and nobody getting USG over 24.3% (Sully) with a ton of different players all getting nearly an 'equal vote'.

An NBA offense should not be a democracy.

[D.o.s.]

Dos do you know what winning plays mean? Hustle plays?

No, I have no idea what that is. Does it have anything to do with The Will To Win or The Heart Of A Champion?

maybe Leaving It All On The Floor?

  Anything's Possible!!!!!

Precisely.

The problem is, all of those emotions that manifest themselves in the way we talk about sports stories, the reason why they resonate profoundly, are equally tied up in the stupid application of emotional response as fact.

Or, should I say, the eye test.

[Nerf DPOY]

Ironically, you could make a pretty awesome montage of Rondo hustle plays.

Also, I have to confess to not knowing the definition of 'winning plays'. What are winning plays? Is that like, throwing the ball off a defender when going out of bounds? Or is that more a 'heady move'?

[Donoghus]

Dos do you know what winning plays mean? Hustle plays?

No, I have no idea what that is. Does it have anything to do with The Will To Win or The Heart Of A Champion?

maybe Leaving It All On The Floor?

  Anything's Possible!!!!!

Precisely.

The problem is, all of those emotions that manifest themselves in the way we talk about sports stories, the reason why they resonate profoundly, are equally tied up in the stupid application of emotional response as fact.

Or, should I say, the eye test.

I don't think relying solely on one versus the other is a good thing. (stats v. eyeyball test). 

Both can be rather beneficial and, I know this will shock people, sometimes they can actually work hand in hand. 

[D.o.s.]

That's why I said "stupid application"
 

[action781]

Rondo was playing within the team's goals tonight.  I can say with certainty he was not playing to win the game.  He was playing within the team's ultimate goal of getting better and developing as a team.

If you're the best player on a team and you only take 7 shot attempts on a night when you've shot 6/7, then clearly you either didn't play aggressively enough or you weren't getting the ball enough.  As point guard, the whole getting the ball enough things is obviously not the issue.  Rondo's wasn't aggressive because his priority tonight was not winning the game.  His priority is getting the younger guys touches to help them develop and to help the front office and coaching staff find out what they have in them.

Furthermore, as a team, our guards did a really bad job tonight defending their guards.  Rondo is way too good of a defender to allow the likes of Patty Mills or Cory Joseph do what they did last night if he was truly trying to win this game.  If this was the playoffs, Rondo would have taken those guys out of the game.

[cons]

Rondo was playing within the team's goals tonight.  I can say with certainty he was not playing to win the game.  He was playing within the team's ultimate goal of getting better and developing as a team.

If you're the best player on a team and you only take 7 shot attempts on a night when you've shot 6/7, then clearly you either didn't play aggressively enough or you weren't getting the ball enough.  As point guard, the whole getting the ball enough things is obviously not the issue.  Rondo's wasn't aggressive because his priority tonight was not winning the game.  His priority is getting the younger guys touches to help them develop and to help the front office and coaching staff find out what they have in them.

Furthermore, as a team, our guards did a really bad job tonight defending their guards.  Rondo is way too good of a defender to allow the likes of Patty Mills or Cory Joseph do what they did last night if he was truly trying to win this game.  If this was the playoffs, Rondo would have taken those guys out of the game.

Yeah that's pretty much what I meant - you said it better than me.
I guess it's fine and big picture wise I get it that winning is not really the idea right now but it's still frustrating to watch, knowing that rondo has another level he can go to.  The rest of the players are playing pretty much as expected.

[SHAQATTACK]

I was ok with his effort.......sure he can go harder......no really seeing why he would with this team or point in the season .

No reason to kill himself  for nothing.

He played a good game , just leave it at that.

[D.o.s.]

Rondo was playing within the team's goals tonight.  I can say with certainty he was not playing to win the game.  He was playing within the team's ultimate goal of getting better and developing as a team.

If you're the best player on a team and you only take 7 shot attempts on a night when you've shot 6/7, then clearly you either didn't play aggressively enough or you weren't getting the ball enough.  As point guard, the whole getting the ball enough things is obviously not the issue.  Rondo's wasn't aggressive because his priority tonight was not winning the game.  His priority is getting the younger guys touches to help them develop and to help the front office and coaching staff find out what they have in them.

Furthermore, as a team, our guards did a really bad job tonight defending their guards.  Rondo is way too good of a defender to allow the likes of Patty Mills or Cory Joseph do what they did last night if he was truly trying to win this game.  If this was the playoffs, Rondo would have taken those guys out of the game.

So you're on the record as believing that there are active, starting Celtics players who don't care about winning basketball games?

[Tr1boy]

Rondo was playing within the team's goals tonight.  I can say with certainty he was not playing to win the game.  He was playing within the team's ultimate goal of getting better and developing as a team.

If you're the best player on a team and you only take 7 shot attempts on a night when you've shot 6/7, then clearly you either didn't play aggressively enough or you weren't getting the ball enough.  As point guard, the whole getting the ball enough things is obviously not the issue.  Rondo's wasn't aggressive because his priority tonight was not winning the game.  His priority is getting the younger guys touches to help them develop and to help the front office and coaching staff find out what they have in them.

Furthermore, as a team, our guards did a really bad job tonight defending their guards.  Rondo is way too good of a defender to allow the likes of Patty Mills or Cory Joseph do what they did last night if he was truly trying to win this game.  If this was the playoffs, Rondo would have taken those guys out of the game.

I hope your right

[CelticG1]

No i dont think he was playing particuarly hard. I  can say that about 100% of NBA players throughout a season though so i dont.