I like the way the Celtics play without Rondo

[CelticG1]

i thought for sure this was a pro tanking thread

[kg is king]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

[kozlodoev]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

And how does Rondo figure into that discussion?

[Donoghus]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

[kozlodoev]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

The Celtics played very well without Rondo last season. The fact that they faltered without Rondo in the playoffs doesn't really say much about how they would have fared _with_ Rondo.

[RJ87]

- Rondo had a near triple double , yet we still lost today
- Wallace, Olynyk, Sullinger, Bayless were ineffective
- Rondo stood around most of the 4th quarter hoping that someone will get open instead of initiating the offense
- Rondo played poor defense in the 2nd half that helped us get destroyed

I understand Rondo is still not 100 percent.

Simple question. IF Rondo and Avery Bryant didn't play, could we have won tonight?

  Were you asking if we'd have won without Rondo because we looked so good with him on the bench last night? Because he was out of the game for 11 minutes and we were outscored by 9 points in that time. It's easy to see why you'd come to your conclusion.

And how much were we outscored with rondo on the court , especially starting the 3rd?

Our defense is worse with rondo starting. Stats back it up since thats the main thing you look at

And we outscored them 35-30 in the fourth (when your eye test showed Rondo wasn't trying).

[slamtheking]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

agreed.  it was a vocal (and foolish) minority that expressed those thoughts. 

[Tr1boy]

- Rondo had a near triple double , yet we still lost today
- Wallace, Olynyk, Sullinger, Bayless were ineffective
- Rondo stood around most of the 4th quarter hoping that someone will get open instead of initiating the offense
- Rondo played poor defense in the 2nd half that helped us get destroyed

I understand Rondo is still not 100 percent.

Simple question. IF Rondo and Avery Bryant didn't play, could we have won tonight?

  Were you asking if we'd have won without Rondo because we looked so good with him on the bench last night? Because he was out of the game for 11 minutes and we were outscored by 9 points in that time. It's easy to see why you'd come to your conclusion.

And how much were we outscored with rondo on the court , especially starting the 3rd?

Our defense is worse with rondo starting. Stats back it up since thats the main thing you look at

And we outscored them 35-30 in the fourth (when your eye test showed Rondo wasn't trying).

Did dallas even try in the 4th? Dirk was lounging on the bench

We lost that game easily dont let the final score fool you.

[Tr1boy]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

The Celtics played very well without Rondo last season. The fact that they faltered without Rondo in the playoffs doesn't really say much about how they would have fared _with_ Rondo.

+1 . With rondo with the way we were losing we were not even going to make the playoffs. Yes he was stuffing his stats but we were still losing. He played horrible defense also.

But ppl blame our early playoff exit bc rondo was missing? Lol

[Fafnir]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

The Celtics played very well without Rondo last season. The fact that they faltered without Rondo in the playoffs doesn't really say much about how they would have fared _with_ Rondo.

But ppl blame our early playoff exit bc rondo was missing? Lol

I blame it on our team not being very good. A big part of that was having no PG to handle the ball and get us into our offense.

Paul Pierce was completely exhausted that series and had to bring up the ball to break pressure from the Knicks. We were so desparate for quality guard play that series we dusted off Terrance Williams.

But hey I'm sure Rondo would have made us worse that series...

[sed522002]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

The Celtics played very well without Rondo last season. The fact that they faltered without Rondo in the playoffs doesn't really say much about how they would have fared _with_ Rondo.

But ppl blame our early playoff exit bc rondo was missing? Lol

I blame it on our team not being very good. A big part of that was having no PG to handle the ball and get us into our offense.

Paul Pierce was completely exhausted that series and had to bring up the ball to break pressure from the Knicks. We were so desparate for quality guard play that series we dusted off Terrance Williams.

But hey I'm sure Rondo would have made us worse that series...

That's my recollection of that series (I try to forget it as much as possible). Pierce had done so much in the regular season to keep things afloat that he was gassed by playoff time. Since we didn't have a "real" pg the Knicks defense looked like the Seahawks the way they were attacking Pierce or AB before they could even really bring the ball up.

[RJ87]

- Rondo had a near triple double , yet we still lost today
- Wallace, Olynyk, Sullinger, Bayless were ineffective
- Rondo stood around most of the 4th quarter hoping that someone will get open instead of initiating the offense
- Rondo played poor defense in the 2nd half that helped us get destroyed

I understand Rondo is still not 100 percent.

Simple question. IF Rondo and Avery Bryant didn't play, could we have won tonight?

  Were you asking if we'd have won without Rondo because we looked so good with him on the bench last night? Because he was out of the game for 11 minutes and we were outscored by 9 points in that time. It's easy to see why you'd come to your conclusion.

And how much were we outscored with rondo on the court , especially starting the 3rd?

Our defense is worse with rondo starting. Stats back it up since thats the main thing you look at

And we outscored them 35-30 in the fourth (when your eye test showed Rondo wasn't trying).

Did dallas even try in the 4th? Dirk was lounging on the bench

We lost that game easily dont let the final score fool you.

So disregard boxscore and all other statistical proof that shows you're wrong? Still, my own "eye test" doesn't see the things you've claimed repeatedly. Throughout last night's game (and previous games he's played this year), Rondo got the ball up the court quickly enough and he's passing the ball off relatively quickly. Sometimes the ball comes back to him when the initial play breaks down - but I literally am not seeing this alleged pounding of the ball. We are scoring more in transition with him back, and the offense has been better. Has he "pounded the ball" in the past? Yes, he has been guilty of that - last season quite a bit. But I definitely think you're watching DVR'd game from last season and not watching him this season.

He's still struggling with acceleration and lateral quickness, so he's not as able to penetrate opposing defensives and fight over picks as much as we've seen. I also notice he's still hesitant to take off and land on that leg - all those things will get better in time. For now, I'm extrememly happy with where he is in his recovery. Over his last 3 games (2 of which were Celtics wins, btw) he's averaging 14pts, 11asts, and 7.7rbs in 32 mins. He's doing it efficiently too - 61% shooting and 36% from 3.

He's not the black hole that you're trying to make him out to be.

[nickagneta]

Regarding Rondo and last night's game, if players were hitting open shots and layups, my count is that Rondo would have had about 20 assists.

The woes against Dallas had nothing to do with Rondo and everything to do with the fact that Bradley, Green, Sully, Olynyk and Bayless couldn't hit the water if they were throwing the basketball off the side of a boat.

Rondo pushed the pace, pushed in transition, initiated the offense without over dribbling, rebounded and shot well. His defense, as has been since coming back, was not good.

The offense as a whole ran better last night than when Rondo was not playing this year, its just the people he was passing the ball to couldn't hit a shot to save their lives until the last 4 minutes of the game.

[j804]

Regarding Rondo and last night's game, if players were hitting open shots and layups, my count is that Rondo would have had about 20 assists.

The woes against Dallas had nothing to do with Rondo and everything to do with the fact that Bradley, Green, Sully, Olynyk and Bayless couldn't hit the water if they were throwing the basketball off the side of a boat.

Rondo pushed the pace, pushed in transition, initiated the offense without over dribbling, rebounded and shot well. His defense, as has been since coming back, was not good.

The offense as a whole ran better last night than when Rondo was not playing this year, its just the people he was passing the ball to couldn't hit a shot to save their lives until the last 4 minutes of the game.

I agree and this is why I can't wait to see Rondo and Sully next to some real pieces better yet a legit star.

[kg is king]

This was the general sentiment of the blog last season after Rondo went down. And then look what happened to us in the playoffs. Easy concept, you don't win without stars.

I don't think that was the general sentiment of the blog last season.  Certainly some vocal people were yelling & screaming that the Celtics were better without Rondo but there were also plenty of people here calling that viewpoint a mirage (one which was ultimately realized, IMO).

The Celtics played very well without Rondo last season. The fact that they faltered without Rondo in the playoffs doesn't really say much about how they would have fared _with_ Rondo.

This will be an endless argument because no one can know for sure how the team will fare with Rondo. All I know is that teams generally clamp down on defense in the playoffs. Even a lackadaisical defensive team like the Knicks were able to harass the Rondo-less Celtics. If you remember, it was a struggle to get the ball across half court (wasn't too evident in the regular season because opoonents aren't trying as hard on D). After we got the ball across, it was also a struggle to run our offense. I don't think it's a big stretch to think Rondo will help with that.