I like the way the Celtics play without Rondo

[BballTim]

Also, I saw a few times last night where CJ was wide open in the corner and Romdo would have hit him every time. Just saying.

  That's the kind of things people don't see. Like the times you'll see Rondo or Bradley trying to cover a center underneath because of a switch or something and the opposing team just runs whatever they were going to instead of exploiting the mismatch.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Rondo is a legit PG in the League, and so hard to find. I'm tired of the hate for rondo. We complain about not signing stars whew  we have one will to stay here. I just don't understand.

I don't care about stars. I care about playing excellent team basketball. Thats how you win championships

The 2008 having big stars or not, it doesn't matter. The ball was passing left and right, outside and inside. Our offense was great.  Our defense was excellent.

2008 having big stars doesn't matter? Sure you can pass the ball left and right but not having stars to finish off a possession definitely does matter. Rondo pass to KG and then to Pierce, who finishes the possession with a score. Rondo pass to Sully and then to Green, who has a lower likelihood to finish with points. Simple logic.

So what ? Your not going to pass the ball?

The best pgs imo are the ones that make whoever they play with better. Not select and choose.

I'm not sure if serious.

Yes you select and choose and EVERYBODY does it! So, if PP is open and close to the basket are you going to pass it to Green who is behind the 3pt line with 3 defenders. Stop forcing that idea because it makes NO SENSE! Are you really saying that you would pass the ball to Pressey to hit a 3 over Ray Allen? If you don't select and choose then you aren't passing it... you have to select and choose to pass it, unless the ball has a mind of it's own! Those best pgs who do that are a figment of your imagination, unless you are telling me they were passing to the worst players in the NBA and winning. Yea, they win so many championships with inferior talent. 0.0

I disagree. Rondo's job should be to help others be better. Not passing the ball the way he feels like it.  I hate the heat but lebron is a straight team player. He doesn't care if your norris cole or a chalmers, if your free you will get fed a pass.  If you get it in or not thats not for him to be worried about it. Its the coaches job to do that

Rondo working to get JG in the groove helps the team a lot more than trying to help Gerald Wallace break double digits.

There are no bad players in this league. It's a matter of consistency. Gerald Wallace probably won't replicate his performance last night for a while (and if he does, it'd be very very awesome for us).

[SHAQATTACK]

Rondo reins in the young players sets a nice rhythm to the game.   So far I disagree with OP ......he is contributing in a way , this group has had NO real point guard leadership ,  just the nice court vision of Pressey here and there .

Rondo has made nice strides in his recovery ........not only will he get better ,  but the whole team will improve as unit with a true structure .  Pressey  subbing as a  mini -Rondo .......letting CJ , AB. Play at their natural spots.

Rondo wants fast pace too......but under control


So far I like what Rondo has brought  to table..    ......I'm afraid other GM s see his game and the urge to reap a huge asset for him may wind up being more than Danny can resist

[Kc2135]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

[Fafnir]

Honestly I'm not sure what to say to you triboy16f. Because watching the same game as you in the past you've insisted Rondo walked the ball up the whole time. I saw him pushing it early consistently and feeding Jeff Green. Then Stevens praised Rondo for pushing the tempo in that game, and an article came out indicating the team was playing a much faster game than with Rondo and than without.

You just say "watch the games". At this point, you're seeing what you want to see.

Subjectively of course you can enjoy the C's without Rondo more, that is a stylistic judgment. But your details as others have pointed out are demonstrably inaccurate.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/10415048/boston-celtics-offense-coming-rajon-rondo-back

[pokeKingCurtis]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

TP. Did you make that?

Sully's drop in production should also be accounted for by the fact that he's had a hand injury.

[Tr1boy]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

TP. Did you make that?

Sully's drop in production should also be accounted for by the fact that he's had a hand injury.

What about the stats without Rondo?

Of course the stats with Rondo will be better vs stats with Jhog i mean Jcraw

Wallace, Olynyk and Sullinger unlikely would have the game they did last night with Rondo pounding the ball

Against the 76rs KO got a total of three passes from Rondo and i believe none on top of the three pt line where he is also dangerous to make passes.

[Vermont Green]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

TP. Did you make that?

Sully's drop in production should also be accounted for by the fact that he's had a hand injury.

This is what I'm talking about. You don't like RR, fine. You don't like the way he plays, okay. To suggest that RR doesn't make his teammates better and that he doesn't pass to some people just doesn't mesh with reality. No, some players don't mesh well, that's not on the pg (RR) that's fit. Before last season, RR lead the league in assists 2 seasons in a row, yes KG & PP got most of the touches but that's what the best player and/or pg should do, you get the ball to the person most likely to score it and/or the person with the better opportunity to score. Is anyone going to argue that if Lebron sees Wade with a wide open layup he's going to pass it to Birdman for a wide open 3? No really, that's what he is arguing. That argument doesn't make (imagined) Lebron sound better it makes him sound like some1 not good enough to be in the NBA. 3 is worth more than 2 though. 0.0

[pokeKingCurtis]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

TP. Did you make that?

Sully's drop in production should also be accounted for by the fact that he's had a hand injury.

What about the stats without Rondo?

Of course the stats with Rondo will be better vs stats with Jhog i mean Jcraw

Wallace, Olynyk and Sullinger unlikely would have the game they did last night with Rondo pounding the ball

Against the 76rs KO got a total of three passes from Rondo and i believe none on top of the three pt line where he is also dangerous to make passes.

If KO were to produce like that on a consistent basis, I'm fairly certain Rondo would find him.

There's a complex pecking order here. JG needs his shots early and often. Sully can find his own shots.

Minus AB, KO obviously has more opportunities as he's "moved up".

And, again, what reason is there not to make your first options a priority and thereby follow the pecking order?



Also consider that JG is a primary target of defenses. I'm sure you're aware that when JG has it going, he does it at an all star level.

Feeding someone who can go for 30 surely eclipses worrying about other guys.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

Did you account for pace? Like why would he want a slower pace playing with KG and PP and who the nmbench players were, things like age and whether the players were quicker who played on the bench? Slower pace means less shots/less assists. RR hasn't had a team where you could run, is what you're seeing now RR changing or is it b/c the players around him have changed? Then account for the system the coach runs. I don't get how all the blame can be accredited to RR. It's funny that pace is something blamed on RR as if that pace wasn't w/ a winning team and if not for injuries, who knows. I also remember some posting something about how RR doesn't hold the ball any longer than guys like CP3.

Oh so they picked up the pace last season w/o RR? What did that leave us with? An exhausted and banged up core... seasons past the playoffs were when we hit our stride not what we looked like last season. I don't get why anyone would want to speed up and wear down PP and KG especially when the way they played always allowed for some of the best FG efficiency in the league.

People talked abt rebounds alot too but Mia isn't a good rebounding team either, wouldn't you know they have one of if not the best team FG%. You're not going to get a rb on a made basket. RR knowing who to pass it to and when is a big reason why we always shot the ball very well.

[Tr1boy]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

Did you account for pace? Like why would he want a slower pace playing with KG and PP and who the nmbench players were, things like age and whether the players were quicker who played on the bench? Slower pace means less shots/less assists. RR hasn't had a team where you could run, is what you're seeing now RR changing or is it b/c the players around him have changed? Then account for the system the coach runs. I don't get how all the blame can be accredited to RR. It's funny that pace is something blamed on RR as if that pace wasn't w/ a winning team and if not for injuries, who knows. I also remember some posting something about how RR doesn't hold the ball any longer than guys like CP3.

Oh so they picked up the pace last season w/o RR? What did that leave us with? An exhausted and banged up core... seasons past the playoffs were when we hit our stride not what we looked like last season. I don't get why anyone would want to speed up and wear down PP and KG especially when the way they played always allowed for some of the best FG efficiency in the league.

People talked abt rebounds alot too but Mia isn't a good rebounding team either, wouldn't you know they have one of if not the best team FG%. You're not going to get a rb on a made basket. RR knowing who to pass it to and when is a big reason why we always shot the ball very well.

We still made the playoffs. Who knows if we would of with RR. We lost so many games with him taking control of the ball.

And he still has barely changed. Just bc we beat up on the magic and 76rs doesnt mean we r suddenly a great team. I like the way we played yesterday better. On both ends of the court.

[BballTim]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

  You're clear, but I think you're wrong. We didn't have more assists with Rondo off the court than we did on the court in either 2012 or 2013. We also didn't have more assists in games that Rondo missed than games he played either year.

[hwangjini_1]

And the last two games rondo has played he has flirted with triple doubles, this, being 4 games back from ACL recovery. He makes is teammates better.

very small point. rondo has played 8 games. ok, back to the thread.

[BballTim]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

Did you account for pace? Like why would he want a slower pace playing with KG and PP and who the nmbench players were, things like age and whether the players were quicker who played on the bench? Slower pace means less shots/less assists. RR hasn't had a team where you could run, is what you're seeing now RR changing or is it b/c the players around him have changed? Then account for the system the coach runs. I don't get how all the blame can be accredited to RR. It's funny that pace is something blamed on RR as if that pace wasn't w/ a winning team and if not for injuries, who knows. I also remember some posting something about how RR doesn't hold the ball any longer than guys like CP3.

Oh so they picked up the pace last season w/o RR? What did that leave us with? An exhausted and banged up core... seasons past the playoffs were when we hit our stride not what we looked like last season. I don't get why anyone would want to speed up and wear down PP and KG especially when the way they played always allowed for some of the best FG efficiency in the league.

People talked abt rebounds alot too but Mia isn't a good rebounding team either, wouldn't you know they have one of if not the best team FG%. You're not going to get a rb on a made basket. RR knowing who to pass it to and when is a big reason why we always shot the ball very well.

We still made the playoffs. Who knows if we would of with RR. We lost so many games with him taking control of the ball.

And he still has barely changed. Just bc we beat up on the magic and 76rs doesnt mean we r suddenly a great team. I like the way we played yesterday better. On both ends of the court.

  Hopefully he hasn't changed much. He's been a dominant player in the postseason and he's led the team to the finals and the ecf in recent years. I'd like to see more of the same.