I like the way the Celtics play without Rondo

[RockinRyA]

Reasons 1 & 2 are factually inaccurate.

A simple glance at team stats would disprove both points.

I guess people will make whatever claims this wish, no matter how false, just to substantiate their own biased opinion.

Yeah true. I guess you see what you want to see. Stats has disproven him time and time again but he flat out refuse to acknowledge them.

[timobusa]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=69512.msg1618744#msg1618744

My post today about Rondo's pace/passing

During Rondo's 59 minutes of court time over the past two contests, the Celtics had an offensive rating (points per 100 possessions) of 112.7 points and that number plummeted to 99.3 in the 37 minutes he was off the floor. Rondo's playmaking abilities are giving a jolt to a team that ranks 26th in the league in offensive rating (98.5) through 50 games.
....
That was hammered home by the fact that Rondo and Stevens sat down for a film session before Wednesday's game with an emphasis on pushing the ball in transition.

...
"His push [Wednesday] in the first quarter [was] to a point where he had to be taken out. He was tired because he was really pushing the ball in transition," Stevens said. "That's good for our team, and it's something we've been emphasizing, especially since he's been back."
...
But you can tell Rondo is ramping up. The Celtics' pace factor over the past two games with Rondo on the court? A whopping 100.85 possessions, which would rank behind only the 76ers for the entire season. The Celtics have operated this season at a middle-of-the-pack pace (95.89 possessions; 18th in the league) but that number has jumped to 99.4 over Rondo's past three games.

According to the NBA’s Spor**** tracking system, Rondo is already averaging 55 passes per game, even though he’s averaging 25.8 minutes.  If you want to break that down by minute, Rondo is averaging 2.13 passes every minute he’s on the floor.  That puts him right in line with league leader in passes per game Kemba Walker, who has 76.9 in his 35.8 mpg (2.14 per minute).  So Rondo is moving the ball with the best of them.
...
When projected out over 48 minutes, Rondo is creating 30 points by assist per game.  That’s third best in the league already.  Chris Paul is first with 34.8.  Kendall Marshall, surprisingly, is second at 31.6.

Are you sure they score more points in transition w/out Rondo or is this your eye test telling you they do? Also, he has the ball a lot, but he's passing the ball a lot as well.

BAM! TP!

[Kane3387]

Can't wait to see Tim get in on this!

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Rondo is a legit PG in the League, and so hard to find. I'm tired of the hate for rondo. We complain about not signing stars whew  we have one will to stay here. I just don't understand.

I don't care about stars. I care about playing excellent team basketball. Thats how you win championships

The 2008 having big stars or not, it doesn't matter. The ball was passing left and right, outside and inside. Our offense was great.  Our defense was excellent.

2008 having big stars doesn't matter? Sure you can pass the ball left and right but not having stars to finish off a possession definitely does matter. Rondo pass to KG and then to Pierce, who finishes the possession with a score. Rondo pass to Sully and then to Green, who has a lower likelihood to finish with points. Simple logic.

So what ? Your not going to pass the ball?

The best pgs imo are the ones that make whoever they play with better. Not select and choose.

I'm not sure if serious.

Yes you select and choose and EVERYBODY does it! So, if PP is open and close to the basket are you going to pass it to Green who is behind the 3pt line with 3 defenders. Stop forcing that idea because it makes NO SENSE! Are you really saying that you would pass the ball to Pressey to hit a 3 over Ray Allen? If you don't select and choose then you aren't passing it... you have to select and choose to pass it, unless the ball has a mind of it's own! Those best pgs who do that are a figment of your imagination, unless you are telling me they were passing to the worst players in the NBA and winning. Yea, they win so many championships with inferior talent. 0.0


Wait, this isn't meant as an insult, it's meant to show why I don't agree with you and why it doesn't make sense, to me. My bad.

[Tr1boy]

Rondo is a legit PG in the League, and so hard to find. I'm tired of the hate for rondo. We complain about not signing stars whew  we have one will to stay here. I just don't understand.

I don't care about stars. I care about playing excellent team basketball. Thats how you win championships

The 2008 having big stars or not, it doesn't matter. The ball was passing left and right, outside and inside. Our offense was great.  Our defense was excellent.

2008 having big stars doesn't matter? Sure you can pass the ball left and right but not having stars to finish off a possession definitely does matter. Rondo pass to KG and then to Pierce, who finishes the possession with a score. Rondo pass to Sully and then to Green, who has a lower likelihood to finish with points. Simple logic.

So what ? Your not going to pass the ball?

The best pgs imo are the ones that make whoever they play with better. Not select and choose.

I'm not sure if serious.

Yes you select and choose and EVERYBODY does it! So, if PP is open and close to the basket are you going to pass it to Green who is behind the 3pt line with 3 defenders. Stop forcing that idea because it makes NO SENSE! Are you really saying that you would pass the ball to Pressey to hit a 3 over Ray Allen? If you don't select and choose then you aren't passing it... you have to select and choose to pass it, unless the ball has a mind of it's own! Those best pgs who do that are a figment of your imagination, unless you are telling me they were passing to the worst players in the NBA and winning. Yea, they win so many championships with inferior talent. 0.0

I disagree. Rondo's job should be to help others be better. Not passing the ball the way he feels like it.  I hate the heat but lebron is a straight team player. He doesn't care if your norris cole or a chalmers, if your free you will get fed a pass.  If you get it in or not thats not for him to be worried about it. Its the coaches job to do that

[fitzhickey]

Rondo is a legit PG in the League, and so hard to find. I'm tired of the hate for rondo. We complain about not signing stars whew  we have one will to stay here. I just don't understand.

I don't care about stars. I care about playing excellent team basketball. Thats how you win championships

The 2008 having big stars or not, it doesn't matter. The ball was passing left and right, outside and inside. Our offense was great.  Our defense was excellent.

2008 having big stars doesn't matter? Sure you can pass the ball left and right but not having stars to finish off a possession definitely does matter. Rondo pass to KG and then to Pierce, who finishes the possession with a score. Rondo pass to Sully and then to Green, who has a lower likelihood to finish with points. Simple logic.

So what ? Your not going to pass the ball?

The best pgs imo are the ones that make whoever they play with better. Not select and choose.

I'm not sure if serious.

Yes you select and choose and EVERYBODY does it! So, if PP is open and close to the basket are you going to pass it to Green who is behind the 3pt line with 3 defenders. Stop forcing that idea because it makes NO SENSE! Are you really saying that you would pass the ball to Pressey to hit a 3 over Ray Allen? If you don't select and choose then you aren't passing it... you have to select and choose to pass it, unless the ball has a mind of it's own! Those best pgs who do that are a figment of your imagination, unless you are telling me they were passing to the worst players in the NBA and winning. Yea, they win so many championships with inferior talent. 0.0

I disagree. Rondo's job should be to help others be better. Not passing the ball the way he feels like it.  I hate the heat but lebron is a straight team player. He doesn't care if your norris cole or a chalmers, if your free you will get fed a pass.  If you get it in or not thats not for him to be worried about it. Its the coaches job to do that

Rondo should be passing the way he feels like it, as his instincts are very good. He is a natural playmaker and does a really good job at it. If Gerald Wallace is open at the 3, and Sully is 1v1 with someone in the paint, who would you pass to? Just because someone is open doesn't make it the correct pass to make.

[Tr1boy]

Did wallace shoot the three tonight? He drove in instead.

You should trust your teammates. If they dont take the shot they will pass the ball. Not every pass from rondo needs to go in. Sometimes you need two passes to hit the open man/get the easy bucket

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Did wallace shoot the three tonight? He drove in instead.

You should trust your teammates. If they dont take the shot they will pass the ball. Not every pass from rondo needs to go in. Sometimes you need two passes to hit the open man/get the easy bucket

You are arguing to argue. Since you aren't going to be reasonable it is a lost cause, gonna ignore the posts because his comments go beyond disagreement to utter nonsense (My last post to this person, if I remember his name... which I probably won't 0.0)!

[bobbyv]

[BballTim]

Reasons 1 & 2 are factually inaccurate.

A simple glance at team stats would disprove both points.

I guess people will make whatever claims this wish, no matter how false, just to substantiate their own biased opinion.

It is accurate, don't only look at stats and watch the games. Like the last game Olynyk got what 2 passes on top of the three pt line. Bc rondo wants to be the one making most the offensive decision. And you saw a different Sullinger and Wallace tonight if you let them have a chance to make decisions with the ball. Their overall game increases

Today i think i saw several more transition baskets or at least attempts vs the last two games. Rondo gets the ball after a defensive rebound and i don't see him passing the ball ahead enough.  This is a powerful way to play basketball instead of the traditional PG walking it up the court way.

  Every time Rondo plays there are plenty of plays where he rushes the ball up the court and plenty of plays when he doesn't. When he's out of the game there are plenty of plays where we rush the ball up the court and plenty of plays where we don't. You watch all of that and selectively remember the ones that fit your preconceived notion of what happens in games.

[BballTim]

Rondo is a legit PG in the League, and so hard to find. I'm tired of the hate for rondo. We complain about not signing stars whew  we have one will to stay here. I just don't understand.

I don't care about stars. I care about playing excellent team basketball. Thats how you win championships

The 2008 having big stars or not, it doesn't matter. The ball was passing left and right, outside and inside. Our offense was great.  Our defense was excellent.

2008 having big stars doesn't matter? Sure you can pass the ball left and right but not having stars to finish off a possession definitely does matter. Rondo pass to KG and then to Pierce, who finishes the possession with a score. Rondo pass to Sully and then to Green, who has a lower likelihood to finish with points. Simple logic.

So what ? Your not going to pass the ball?

The best pgs imo are the ones that make whoever they play with better. Not select and choose.

I'm not sure if serious.

Yes you select and choose and EVERYBODY does it! So, if PP is open and close to the basket are you going to pass it to Green who is behind the 3pt line with 3 defenders. Stop forcing that idea because it makes NO SENSE! Are you really saying that you would pass the ball to Pressey to hit a 3 over Ray Allen? If you don't select and choose then you aren't passing it... you have to select and choose to pass it, unless the ball has a mind of it's own! Those best pgs who do that are a figment of your imagination, unless you are telling me they were passing to the worst players in the NBA and winning. Yea, they win so many championships with inferior talent. 0.0

I disagree. Rondo's job should be to help others be better. Not passing the ball the way he feels like it.  I hate the heat but lebron is a straight team player. He doesn't care if your norris cole or a chalmers, if your free you will get fed a pass.  If you get it in or not thats not for him to be worried about it. Its the coaches job to do that

  Rondo does make his teammates better. That's why someone like Chris Wilcox can set the franchise record for highest fg% in a season (for players with more than a few total shots) a year or two after a near-retirement Shaq set it. It's kind of crazy to think that Rondo shouldn't pass the ball to the person who's most likely to (and in the best position to) score when he gets it. But, just out of curiosity, which player who's regularly on the court with Rondo does he not pass the ball to?

[Celtics4ever]

Reasons

1) Team passing increases. This causes lots of issues for opposing teams to play defense. When Rondo is in the game , players are usually standing around more.

2) The team scores more baskets in transition.

3) We got guys like Sullinger, Olynyk and Wallace that can pass. And they get to pass more without Rondo. Also helps boost their games


Also don't we have a pretty decent record without Jcraw or Rondo this year so far?

If we or when we trade Rondo, i don't mind us getting a pg more like Bayless (better version). Not a pure pg, but has some skill and is a constant threat to shoot the ball to open up the floor more.

The last point i wanted to make was, if you rewatch some of the 2008 season games (especially in the playoffs), the ball is being shared alot. Rondo didn't have it in his hands much longer than paul pierce and at times KG did. We had a deadly offense bc the defense didn't know where we will go alot of the times. Teams like the pacers and heat have adopted to play this kind of basketball and the heat have won 2 rings now. 

1)  How do you not know it was not having Avery that helped us last night?   You don't, he didn't play either.  Kind of shoots you down hard, np?

2) When last I looked Rondo is the only guy on our roster with a ring.

3) The HEAT have LBJ and the refs.   It has nothing to do with their style.   Teams play this way because they don't have a brilliant PG.   Bird has to do the passing for us in the 80s.   He played just fine when we had Tiny though.   This has more to do with the talent a team has than it's style.

4) I guessing you never played ball at a high level.   Guys love playing with good passers.

[SHAQATTACK]

Last night was not a pretty game ,  the fact that the Kings are so poor defensively allowed us to win.

This group needs some form and structure to help the coach pull it together and follow his plan . Rondo brings a discipline to the young Celtics on the court , reins them in some and keeps the effort equal on both ends of the court..

Both teams really need a Rondo to control their games.    .......

Put Rondo on either team last night and that team is the winner going away .

[Kc2135]

And the last two games rondo has played he has flirted with triple doubles, this, being 4 games back from ACL recovery. He makes is teammates better.

[Kc2135]

Also, I saw a few times last night where CJ was wide open in the corner and Romdo would have hit him every time. Just saying.