Tommy on Olynyk

[lantinm]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

Nick (if I may call you that),

Olynyk does have a long way to go on defense, but if he continues to work on his body (to take the pounding down low), and works with someone who can teach him post defense, then I think he will be fine.  I'm not buying this stuff that he's not agile enough, can't jump, or is not very athletic.  He clearly shows agility on offense when driving to the hole, or when he comes off a screen to knock down a jumper.  You don't see many 7-footers (save for guys like Nowitzki, Ibaka, and maybe Channing Frye) that can do that without falling or tripping over themselves. Kelly is a work-in-progress and I really like what I see so far.  I may be in the minority at this point, but so be it.

[clover]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

Nick (if I may call you that),

Olynyk does have a long way to go on defense, but if he continues to work on his body (to take the pounding down low), and works with someone who can teach him post defense, then I think he will be fine.  I'm not buying this stuff that he's not agile enough, can't jump, or is not very athletic.  He clearly shows agility on offense when driving to the hole, or when he comes off a screen to knock down a jumper.  You don't see many 7-footers (save for guys like Nowitzki, Ibaka, and maybe Channing Frye) that can do that without falling or tripping over themselves. Kelly is a work-in-progress and I really like what I see so far.  I may be in the minority at this point, but so be it.

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer. What we're starting to see is that he could be a regular double-double guy who can pass. I think he'll ultimately be a good team defender and passable man-to-man.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Surprised this thread is still going, even though it became more focused on the logistics of stats than Olynyk.

Regardless, I don't even think stats are relevant in our evaluation of the dude. As D.o.s pointed out, Ainge has drafted terribly in recent years (minus Sully). I called the two Purdue boys scrubs the second they were drafted. Guess what? Scrubs. Same with Fab - that's not even worth discussing, in my book.

And as Koz mentioned, we've no reason whatsoever to give KO extended mins. We're a losing team this year, can't argue with that... but homers seem to fail to realize what is NBA caliber talent/athleticism and what isn't. I'd argue that pre-Rondo's return, Bass was the best on the roster at creating his own shot and Hump was as/more paramount to our success than anyone else on the roster(both of whom someone mentioned should both be sat for KO's development). They're not only better now, surpassed KO's ceiling long ago. I don't have numbers for that. I'm sure you can google it; I don't know what will come up, maybe sites and stats will differ. But honestly, it's just an eye test. Dude has no business in the league as anything other than a 7th man on a decent team.

I think this is absolute garbage. 

IMHO Olynyk is about a thousand times more skilled than Bass. 

7 footers with a nice shooting stroke AND a skilled post game don't come along often - much less ones who also have excellent hands, great passing skills, high IQ, and well above average ball handling.

Olynyk can not, nor will he ever be able to, create his own shot. So, how would you like him to use those pretty hands and talented mind?

Average ball handling? Stop. I honestly feel you owe the forum an apology for that comment.

Olynyk in the first half of the year was producing (on a per 36 minute basis) at about the same level as Sully.  If there is any player on this team who shouldn't project well with per-36 minute stats it's Sully, because his conditioning is so chronically poor (and hasn't made the slightest improvement) that I don't know if he will ever be able to average 36 minutes per game in a season.

If you're going to base your argument in favor of KO on stats, you better do a lot more homework. Your "data" has to be wildly skewed. Against which opponents did KO play well? In how many minutes? Who else was on the floor with him? Unfortunately defensive stats are baseless... but I'd presume he was ALWAYS the worst defender on the floor. Literally. Every minute of every game he saw time, he was the worst.

Olynyk is nowhere near as limited as Sully from a conditioning standpoint, nor is he as slow and cumbersome.  He's actually reasonably mobile for a 7'0" guy, while Sully by comparison is horrendously slow and immobile for a 6'9" guy.

Silly. Did not address above and will not address here. You care about his conditioning? Sully is putting up borderline all-star numbers. He's carrying some weight... and? Makes it more impressive to me. I'd argue it's beneficial and I'm not sure I'd even want to slim him down. He's an undersized big that rebounds like a champ... it appears the extra meat on him helps. Maybe it would benefit KO as well, given he has no athletic ability.

Somehow everybody here LOVES to quote Sully's per-36 minute numbers as an indication of where what they think he should be judged on.  Nobody here talks about sully as if he's a 13/8 guys...they all talk about him as if he's an 18/10 guy. 

I didn't mention any statistics. I think per 36 are a joke, and I spend more time than I'd like to studying and applying statistics.

To people here, the gold shines right out of Sully's behind...while everybody else on the team (who isn't getting opportunities to perform) is reportedly garbage.

Do you guys remember Sully's first month or two in the NBA as a rookie?  Do you remember how horrible he was on defense?  How badly he was getting torched by everybody with even the slightest hint of mobility?  How poorly he was shooting?  How frequently his shots were getting blocked? 

Sully picked up about half way through the season and started playing really well, and Olynyk hasn't really hit that same strike...but then Olynyk hasn't had the same opportunity.  Sully got a number of starts in his rookie year, and even as a backup he was usually playing significant minutes.  KO has mostly just gotten scrap minutes behind Bass, Sully and Humphreys. 

That's because they're all far superior. Know how far I'll go? I'll argue Humphries is more of an offensive threat than KO. I haven't looked at, nor will I, but eye test screams it. The primary reason is that he can stay on the floor... he's an NBA basketball player, not a Euroleague all-star.

I'm not going to go out and predict that Sully is going to be an amazing superstar player, but I think he could be asolid starter in a couple of years time.  I don't see why he couldn't be just as productive as somebody like Andrea Bargnani, Channing Frye, Troy Murphy.  I don't se much that those guys had that Olynyk desn't.  His IQ is already well beyond what those guysever had, and neither one of them was especially athletic. 

Sullly is already better than them. KO's IQ is not going to ever be the asset you project because he is physically incapable of competing at this level.

Olynyk was taken 13th overall in what was considered the weakest draft in years - Danny could have done far, far worse.  Honestly, if he were to take another player beyong pick # 13, how many of those players would you guys say are better than Olynyk right now?

So Hardaway, Jr. or Giannis? I begged for both. And not only did he take KO... he moved up for him. Mildly nauseating.

People criticise Danny's drafting but he's done very well in the past acquiring young guys like AB, Rondo, Sully, Big Baby, E'Twaun, etc.  Those guys all proved solid players for their draft position, and even if he didnt draft all of them.

He has misfired on some guys like JJ and Fab, yes.  How many GM's have had 100% in every single draft choice they have made?  Fab was a known gamble.  DA took that gamble because he had two first rounders, and after picking up a very NBA ready guy like Sully he could afford to take a camble on a raw prospect - in the end the gamble didn't work out.  So be it. It was worth the try.

In those 2 situations and Moore, there were better plays on the table that typical fans could see... If I were to measure that, I'd ask the majority of fans if they wanted JJ, Moore, or Fab in the position they were drafted. And I'd suspect the majority of fans, that watch more than half of games per season (for argument sake), would say no.

I really had to force myself to read all of this. I have addressed each comment in point, though, as I found "garbage" incredibly condescending.

[tarheelsxxiii]

IMHO Olynyk is about a thousand times more skilled than Bass. 

7 footers with a nice shooting stroke AND a skilled post game don't come along often - much less ones who also have excellent hands, great passing skills, high IQ, and well above average ball handling.

Perhaps. However, 7-footers who move like they're stuck in molasses and get pushed around like rag dolls typically don't last long in the NBA.

Also, Olynyk may be measuring at 7 feet, but his small wingspan and complete lack of leaping ability make him play smaller than his size. And so far it has looked that his small hands will cause serious issues with finishing around the rim.

There is no sense arguing with the stat geeks. They have stats for everything and stats rule the world today. I honestly do not know why teams bother playing the games anymore. Just plug all of the nifty stats in the computer for each game and see who wins.... 

I'm a stat geek, and I love to argue with myself.

I would say the only people you can argue with are stat geeks. How can you argue with people who feel that their gut feelings shouldn't be bothered with data?

What? So someone not working towards a Ph.D. is less fit to judge bball talent? That implies statistics are superior to the eye test of individuals who know the game of basketball... and there's no way you can defend that.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

So, what you're saying is you want your ROOKIE (new to being) big man to take Duncan b/c Bass and Hump couldn't handle him? Pfft.

Putting him on the lesser players is what you SHOULD do if you know he isn't the better defender, especially if he is a rookie. Right now they want Kelly to get his feet wet, when they have a chance to train in the off season it will be different (hopefully). Let's not pretend that Sully wasn't HORRIBLE on defense early last season. Give the kid time to learn.

Who did Kelly let torch him on defense exactly?

Only 7 of Diaw's 18pts were with Kelly on him (5 in the first half and 2 the second).

Bonner had all of 7pts total, 5 were on Kelly, 2 were on Bass even though it was Kelly's man, Bass was suppose to get back because Kelly wasn't even near the backcourt.

Only 1 basket made by Duncan was b/c Kelly (or Bayless) didn't stop his drive (that was Duncan's last bucket when the game was already over btw).

I looked at every basket made in this game and the play leading to it (thanks NBA)... most of the buckets by SA were with Kelly not even out there. When he was out there, it wasn't his man scoring. So, you're thinking it was in the pnr? Only Mills scored 2 buckets when Kelly was on him b/c Mills man was screened off on the pnr... one basket Mills was driving and Kelly stopped him but Mills hit the J (which you want Kelly to do but he coulda stepped out a little more if he was quicker). The other was a 3 when I think Duncan screened RR off Mills and he hit a 3 even though Kelly stepped up to contest that.

Seriously, not one other bucket was scored (than those I mentioned) b/c of something Kelly did wrong, most of the buckets scored with Kelly in the game (besides the 7 Diaw and 5 Bonner) were when Kelly was on the other side of the court or not anyone Kelly could get to to help.

I'm not saying Kelly is much on defense but of ALL the poor defensive performances tonight, you pick on Kelly who's own man only made 5 buckets on him and when he was tasked to help, 2 buckets when the other player got caught up in the screens, buckets which most bigs would have trouble stopping (except a guy like Chandler)!

I mean it, Kelly gets a bad rap for things that aren't even as bad as people make them out to be. When Bass, Hump, RR, and more were getting TORCHED out there on defense, people mention Kelly's poor D. Yes, I realize this is a thread about him but I mean the game thread too!


Kid can't catch a break! I hope I never have to see all those shots again, Duncan hurt my feelings and so did Diaw early (on Bass)!

[Celtics4ever]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer!   He is coordinated and coordination and athletic ability are two different things.  Here are his combine scores:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelly-Olynyk-19790/

Here are some other combine guys

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs


Nice game last night, good to see progress.

[clover]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer!   He is coordinated and coordination and athletic ability are two different things.  Here are his combine scores:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelly-Olynyk-19790/

Here are some other combine guys

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs


Nice game last night, good to see progress.

You're being silly here. Plumlee and Zeller are two extraordinarily athletic bigs. Look at the combine big man results more broadly and KO is in the upper quadrant in multiple scores.

[rollie mass]

as an intelligent player a summer in the gym and working on lateral quickness and movement should make an immense difference-not only does it take heart to to play D but also intelligence born from experience-an ankle injury for a seven footer in early adjustment stage is enough to throw off everything from shot to confidence-playing defence for Gonzaga to Celtics that's some jump-

[dysgenic]

When I first started watching him I thought he was a stiff, plain and simple.  But he's improved significantly. That's always a good sign for a rookie, especially a rookie big man.  The jury is still out for me, but I doubt he becomes a total bust at this point. 

[Fafnir]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer! 

I'm not sure you understand how athleticism and size are rated.

Young Shaq would make for a very unathletic 6 foot tall point guard. As a 7' 1" center though he was off the charts.

[SHAQATTACK]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

So, what you're saying is you want your ROOKIE (new to being) big man to take Duncan b/c Bass and Hump couldn't handle him? Pfft.

Putting him on the lesser players is what you SHOULD do if you know he isn't the better defender, especially if he is a rookie. Right now they want Kelly to get his feet wet, when they have a chance to train in the off season it will be different (hopefully). Let's not pretend that Sully wasn't HORRIBLE on defense early last season. Give the kid time to learn.

Who did Kelly let torch him on defense exactly?

Only 7 of Diaw's 18pts were with Kelly on him (5 in the first half and 2 the second).

Bonner had all of 7pts total, 5 were on Kelly, 2 were on Bass even though it was Kelly's man, Bass was suppose to get back because Kelly wasn't even near the backcourt.

Only 1 basket made by Duncan was b/c Kelly (or Bayless) didn't stop his drive (that was Duncan's last bucket when the game was already over btw).

I looked at every basket made in this game and the play leading to it (thanks NBA)... most of the buckets by SA were with Kelly not even out there. When he was out there, it wasn't his man scoring. So, you're thinking it was in the pnr? Only Mills scored 2 buckets when Kelly was on him b/c Mills man was screened off on the pnr... one basket Mills was driving and Kelly stopped him but Mills hit the J (which you want Kelly to do but he coulda stepped out a little more if he was quicker). The other was a 3 when I think Duncan screened RR off Mills and he hit a 3 even though Kelly stepped up to contest that.

Seriously, not one other bucket was scored (than those I mentioned) b/c of something Kelly did wrong, most of the buckets scored with Kelly in the game (besides the 7 Diaw and 5 Bonner) were when Kelly was on the other side of the court or not anyone Kelly could get to to help.

I'm not saying Kelly is much on defense but of ALL the poor defensive performances tonight, you pick on Kelly who's own man only made 5 buckets on him and when he was tasked to help, 2 buckets when the other player got caught up in the screens, buckets which most bigs would have trouble stopping (except a guy like Chandler)!

I mean it, Kelly gets a bad rap for things that aren't even as bad as people make them out to be. When Bass, Hump, RR, and more were getting TORCHED out there on defense, people mention Kelly's poor D. Yes, I realize this is a thread about him but I mean the game thread too!


Kid can't catch a break! I hope I never have to see all those shots again, Duncan hurt my feelings and so did Diaw early (on Bass)!

Well said,

You know if these people would channel their hate towards the REST of the Team that played horrible .....they keep using KO as th Escape goat .....instead Kelly gave a super effort when other than Hump and Rondo .....everybody else were awful , yet I see no bashing them.

Kid played a heck of a game against the premier center of  the NBA   And it still isn't good enough.

Glade Danny is watching over the rookies and not people on this blog.

[kozlodoev]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer!   He is coordinated and coordination and athletic ability are two different things.  Here are his combine scores:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelly-Olynyk-19790/

Here are some other combine guys

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs


Nice game last night, good to see progress.

You're being silly here. Plumlee and Zeller are two extraordinarily athletic bigs. Look at the combine big man results more broadly and KO is in the upper quadrant in multiple scores.

I'm quite curious which are these "multiple scores". Because his no-step vertical, wingspan/standing reach, and hand size certainly aren't.

[mmmmm]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer!   He is coordinated and coordination and athletic ability are two different things.  Here are his combine scores:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelly-Olynyk-19790/

Here are some other combine guys

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs


Nice game last night, good to see progress.

You're being silly here. Plumlee and Zeller are two extraordinarily athletic bigs. Look at the combine big man results more broadly and KO is in the upper quadrant in multiple scores.

I'm quite curious which are these "multiple scores". Because his no-step vertical, wingspan/standing reach, and hand size certainly aren't.

Well, I don't think most folks would consider wingspan, standing reach or hand size to be 'athleticism'.

Here is the full table of measurements from over the years:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=5&source=All&sort=15

If you choose the 'C' or 'PF' positions and sort by (lane) Agility, you find that Kelly's 11.42 time is way better than the majority of players that were measured.

It's probably reasonable to assert that he is 'above average' for a PF/C in "lane agility".

[clover]

You're entirely right--KO is actually fairly athletic for a 7-footer

He is not athletic for a six footer!   He is coordinated and coordination and athletic ability are two different things.  Here are his combine scores:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelly-Olynyk-19790/

Here are some other combine guys

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs


Nice game last night, good to see progress.

You're being silly here. Plumlee and Zeller are two extraordinarily athletic bigs. Look at the combine big man results more broadly and KO is in the upper quadrant in multiple scores.

I'm quite curious which are these "multiple scores". Because his no-step vertical, wingspan/standing reach, and hand size certainly aren't.

There's the 3/4 court sprint that KO completed in 3.59--as compared to Sully's 3.81.

How did Sully do in lane agility compared to KO's 11.42? 12.77. (Sully's a better jumper, though only 1 1/2" higher in max vertical.)

[footey]

I have gone through the following "progression" on Kelly:

1. Hated the pick when he was drafted.
2. Loved the pick while he performed in summer league.
3. Got nervous when he got plantar fasciitis.
4.  Started to hate the pick again during the first two months.
5.  Started to like the pick more recently.

I think he was overly deferential to the vets the first half of the season.  I think he focused on the little things, rebounding, defense, passing, setting picks, being a good team mate.  Now he seems to be gaining confidence in himself, and is starting to assert himself. 

Guys like Larry Bird are rare.  I remember his first game with the Celts. He just took over his first game as a rookie.  Ditto Paul Pierce.  Kelly needs to stop caring what the vets think of him, and just play hard.  Follow Sully's lead.