Should KG's number be retired

[BUTerrier]

odd thought on ray allen, will his number be retired anywhere? seattle?

He's got to be in Seattle. No question about it. It might even happen in Milwaukee, seeing as how he started his career there and was arguably the best of the Bucks' "Big Three" (along with Cassell and Robinson).

As for the KG/Allen question, let's eliminate for a moment the Celtics who were elected to the Hall of Fame for their playing accomplishments (and Brown and Auerbach, of course, since they didn't play). The following are the players whose numbers have been retired by Boston who are NOT in the HoF for playing:
-Dennis Johnson
-JoJo White
-Satch Sanders
-Don Nelson
-Cedric Maxwell
-Reggie Lewis
-Jim Loscutoff

I'm inclined to give Lewis a pass for the reasons other people have mentioned; I think our championship window is extended if he doesn't die. Locsy isn't really considered because his isn't a retired number; Cowens did it for him. DJ, while not in the Hall of Fame, is probably going to get in sometime in the near future; 3 championships and great post-season play is going to get him in the door.

So we have JoJo, Satch, Nelson, and Maxwell. All of these guys played longer for the Celtics than Ray or KG did, but aside from Maxwell it can be argued that Ray and KG were more important to their teams playing-wise than the other 3. So then we fall to the more important unscientific question: forget statistical comparisons, and focus on whether the player makes you FEEL like they're an indispensable Celtic, that 25 years from now we're going to be saying "I remembered seeing __ play" like we do for JoJo White?

For Ray, it just doesn't do it for me. I've loved Ray since he was at UConn; I've been calling him Jesus Shuttlesworth since the day "He Got Game" came out. It's either him, Reggie Miller or Dell Curry for "silkiest shot I've ever seen." His move to Miami stung, but that doesn't change 20+ years of my watching his career. But when I think back to the last 5 or 6 seasons, I just don't think of Allen as an indispensable Celtic. Yes, his shooting was a big reason we won that title, and he kept us in other games, but I don't think he really swung the betting line that much. It's not like Celtics fans saw that Allen was sitting out for a given game and went "Holy crap. How are we going to win this thing?" 

But when KG was out . . . people panicked, the defense suffered, the emotion was down. The team just wasn't the same. The reason people treat their departures differently isn't really because Ray went to the Heat; it was because Ray didn't mean as much to us as KG did. KG did a money grab too, guaranteeing his contract in full; we just didn't care, because he had connected so much with us that we couldn't hate him for a second. Allen never gave his heart and soul to the Celtics, and that's fine; you can't fault a guy for making his family important, for making his life important. But I honestly believe KG never wanted to be anywhere else but the Garden, that he honestly never wanted to go until it was painfully obvious there was nothing left for him here. Call it "the Ray Bourque" effect; I challenge anyone on this board to say they hated Bourque for asking for a trade. And, really, no one blames Pierce for it either; they both gave their all to the team, so while it hurt to see them go we knew they deserved it.

So, in summary: yes to KG, no to Allen. It's just about feel in these things. KG may not have been our team's Kareem or Magic, but he was definitely our James Worthy

[RockinRyA]

Yes, his number should be retired.

and - Un-retire numbers?  Really?  who do you think doesn't belong and why? http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

I mean the one that seemed most unworthy to me, at first glance, was Max, but...7 years, 2 titles and a Finals MVP really kind of make a compelling argument.  He told them "Jump on my back, boys" and delivered. 

Interestingly enough, Max is also an argument that would support the idea of retiring Ray's number. For the record, I wouldn't retire Ray's number, but Max was also a key contributor whose departure involved some bad blood.

Unretiring numbers is the dumbest thing I have ever heard all year. Aside from being unethical it would have a lot of repercussions, at least socially.

I too think that Ray's number should be retired based on achievements and contributions alone.. until what he did on his last year and jumping ship to a rival for less money and lesser role (which is a totally anti-celtic move)

KG had the stats (though basic stats show he was very good not great)
KG had the impact (players, coaches will swear how huge his attitude, skill and demeanor changed the franchise) and it is downright outrageous for a mere casual fan to say otherwise. They think they know better than people who were there?
KG embraced being a celtic- and this to me is what elevates a great player to the rafters (something ray obviously didnt, at least at the end)
KG had a major achievement while wearing the uniform- championship and DPOY

[incoherent]

Has anyone mentioned his number is probably going to get retired in Minnesota?

He played 12 seasons there.

[D.o.s.]

Unretiring numbers is the dumbest thing I have ever heard all year. Aside from being unethical it would have a lot of repercussions, at least socially.

Nailed it.

[TripleOT]

The following are the players whose numbers have been retired by Boston who are NOT in the HoF for playing:
-Dennis Johnson

DJ was inducted into the HOF in 2010. 

KG's number 5 belongs in the Garden rafters.  He was the main catalyst for turning things around.  Ray Allen's whatever the heck number he wore here doesn't belong there.  For most of his playoff time here, he wasn't at the top of his game.   

[D.o.s.]

The following are the players whose numbers have been retired by Boston who are NOT in the HoF for playing:
-Dennis Johnson

DJ was inducted into the HOF in 2010. 

KG's number 5 belongs in the Garden rafters.  He was the main catalyst for turning things around.  Ray Allen's whatever the heck number he wore here doesn't belong there.  For most of his playoff time here, he wasn't at the top of his game.

That's a bad measure to use--neither was KG.

[PhoSita]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

[Fafnir]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

[PhoSita]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Yup.  He did mention that as time goes on emotions might play less of a role and logic would take over as far as determining whether Ray's # would be retired.  Also, he admitted that he isn't the one who makes the decisions on this stuff.

[Roy H.]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Like if Danny traded him to Memphis? 

[pokeKingCurtis]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Like if Danny traded him to Memphis? 

For OJ Mayo?

Good riddance.

[Roy H.]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Like if Danny traded him to Memphis? 

For OJ Mayo?

Good riddance.

To Ray or to OJ?  Mayo has been really bad in two out of the last three years.

I way Ray left should factor in to his number retirement, but in a way, that's silly.  If the Celtics had booted him out of town to rebuild, that's acceptable, because Ray maintained his "loyalty", even if the Celtics didn't.  If, on the other hand, he leaves, he's a "traitor", despite the common knowledge that the Celts would have turned their back on him in a second.

It's just hypocritical, but I guess that's sports.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Like if Danny traded him to Memphis? 

For OJ Mayo?

Good riddance.

To Ray or to OJ?  Mayo has been really bad in two out of the last three years.

I way Ray left should factor in to his number retirement, but in a way, that's silly.  If the Celtics had booted him out of town to rebuild, that's acceptable, because Ray maintained his "loyalty", even if the Celtics didn't.  If, on the other hand, he leaves, he's a "traitor", despite the common knowledge that the Celts would have turned their back on him in a second.

It's just hypocritical, but I guess that's sports.

Mayo. Major bullet dodged.

As for Ray Allen...to each their own.

[csfansince60s]

Today on 98.5 with Toucher and Rich, Danny Ainge didn't hesitate when asked if Pierce and KG would have their numbers retired -- he believes they will.

When asked the same about Ray Allen, he wavered and sounded like he didn't think so.

He admitted that if Ray had left under different circumstances it'd have made his jersey retirement more likely.

Like if Danny traded him to Memphis? 

No, more like if his buds (KG and PP) nixed the trade of him for Mayo, and because of his pettiness and wanting to get back at Ainge (for trading him) and Rondo (for lobbying for Bradley to start over him) and Doc  (for doing that), he still went ahead and went over to the enemy, "friends" (PP and KG) be [dang]ed.

"After last night’s double overtime loss Mayo backpedaled faster than Rondo getting back on D, claiming that the accusation wasn’t true and he had no say in the matter due to lack of veto power. He also claimed he would have welcomed a trade to Boston and that the failure stemmed from a C’s internal debate between the front office and the players about keeping #20. "


http://www.celticslife.com/2012/12/oj-mayo-wouldve-been-honor-to-play-for.html

That's why PP and KG have no use for Judas. No rafters for you, Brute!

[LooseCannon]

Retire KG's number so that you can have the contrast of not retiring Ray Allen's number.