Is Rondo worth a max contract?

[D.o.s.]

To people who go off of box score stats, no.  To people who use advanced metrics, maybe, depending on what data they use.  I suspect that the Celtics' in-house data tells Ainge that Rondo is more valuable than the stats and analysis that is easily available to the general public would have us believe.

Not that I disagree with you, but that suspicion seems to be pretty close to faith, and you don't strike me as a poster to take much on faith.

[Enzzo]

To people who go off of box score stats, no.  To people who use advanced metrics, maybe, depending on what data they use.  I suspect that the Celtics' in-house data tells Ainge that Rondo is more valuable than the stats and analysis that is easily available to the general public would have us believe.

Exactly. PPG are nice, but there are a LOT of tools that a player like Rondo brings to the table. While his stats won't show how much he improves an offense, watch the celtics with him (healthy) and the difference is clearly noticable.

[incoherent]

I implore you all to look at the other max contract PGs.

Chris Paul
Steph Curry
John Wall

They all score much more then Rondo while getting 8-10 assist a game. Rondo is 13ppg and 11ast when he peaked and our team was not winning many games.

[LooseCannon]

To people who go off of box score stats, no.  To people who use advanced metrics, maybe, depending on what data they use.  I suspect that the Celtics' in-house data tells Ainge that Rondo is more valuable than the stats and analysis that is easily available to the general public would have us believe.

Not that I disagree with you, but that suspicion seems to be pretty close to faith, and you don't strike me as a poster to take much on faith.

If Ainge appears to place a higher value on Rondo than many people here do, either he evaluates data differently or he has access to additional data that we don't have (or both).

Since it is know that the Celtics place a big emphasis on advanced metrics, it seems likely to me that Ainge is utilizing additional data that we don't have.  Since Rondo tends to look more valuable with the advanced metrics we do have than when viewed through the lens of traditional stats, I think it is a reasonable hypothesis that other advanced metrics using data we do not possess also say that Rondo is better than the box score suggests.

[Fafnir]

I implore others to look at the other max contract PGs.

Chris Paul
Steph Curry
John Wall

They all score much more then Rondo while getting 8-10 assist a game. Rondo is 13ppg and 11ast when he peaked and our team was not winning many games.

Fixed that for you.

[obnoxiousmime]

So what are the other 25 teams to do with stars who aren't worth surplus value to "max" salary but are still all-nba caliber players?

Trade them to a team willing to overpay for them.

So instead of extending Blake Griffin, LMA, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce, etc, etc.

Teams should trade them because they're not MVP caliber but have contract demands near the maximum?

Just because LeBron, Durant, etc are underpaid doesn't make anyone paid similar amounts or more to them overpaid.

In a way, it does. Because ultimately you have to decide whether you can realistically create a contender around the player making that much money.

Anyway I wasn't referring specifically to the list of players you guys mentioned, I was just responding that trading someone before they demand the max (or any salary deemed too high for their ability) is perfectly justifiable.

[Fafnir]

So what are the other 25 teams to do with stars who aren't worth surplus value to "max" salary but are still all-nba caliber players?

Trade them to a team willing to overpay for them.

So instead of extending Blake Griffin, LMA, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce, etc, etc.

Teams should trade them because they're not MVP caliber but have contract demands near the maximum?

Just because LeBron, Durant, etc are underpaid doesn't make anyone paid similar amounts or more to them overpaid.

In a way, it does. Because ultimately you have to decide whether you can realistically create a contender around the player making that much money.

Anyway I wasn't referring specifically to the list of players you guys mentioned, I was just responding that trading someone before they demand the max (or any salary deemed too high for their ability) is perfectly justifiable.

Oh okay, so you weren't responding to my point, but a different one? Don't overpay overated guys, that's great but not really what I'm talking about.

I'll restate my point. LeBron/Durant are underpaid, that does not automatically make everyone who's not as good as them overpaid if they are "max" players and have similar salaries.

Jailan34's point set the bar at MVP level to get a max deal. That's not realistic and frankly hasn't even born out in nba history of contenders or the economics of the NBA.

[Moranis]

I implore others to look at the other max contract PGs.

Chris Paul
Steph Curry
John Wall

They all score much more then Rondo while getting 8-10 assist a game. Rondo is 13ppg and 11ast when he peaked and our team was not winning many games.

Fixed that for you.

Yep, Curry isn't max.  There are other max contract PG's though: Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Derick Rose. 

[incoherent]

Yes exactly, all of those PGs you listed can shoot and consistently score.

If Curry was on open market he would 100% get max.

[SHAQATTACK]

No at the moment with this squad .

Have to wait and see how DAs plans unfold

[obnoxiousmime]

So what are the other 25 teams to do with stars who aren't worth surplus value to "max" salary but are still all-nba caliber players?

Trade them to a team willing to overpay for them.

So instead of extending Blake Griffin, LMA, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce, etc, etc.

Teams should trade them because they're not MVP caliber but have contract demands near the maximum?

Just because LeBron, Durant, etc are underpaid doesn't make anyone paid similar amounts or more to them overpaid.

In a way, it does. Because ultimately you have to decide whether you can realistically create a contender around the player making that much money.

Anyway I wasn't referring specifically to the list of players you guys mentioned, I was just responding that trading someone before they demand the max (or any salary deemed too high for their ability) is perfectly justifiable.

Oh okay, so you weren't responding to my point, but a different one? Don't overpay overated guys, that's great but not really what I'm talking about.

I'll restate my point. LeBron/Durant are underpaid, that does not automatically make everyone who's not as good as them overpaid if they are "max" players and have similar salaries.

Jailan34's point set the bar at MVP level to get a max deal. That's not realistic and frankly hasn't even born out in nba history of contenders or the economics of the NBA.

Yes, but I was talking about the definition of "overpaid." Just because there are 30 teams with enough space to pay a couple players a max deal doesn't mean there are 60 players worthy of that. The market does not see them as overpaid but compared to the production the championship teams are getting from their max players, they are.

Anyway, that's what Enzzo was saying. It's a risk to pay Rondo the same cap figure as some of those guys because it may limit the talent you can put around him. I don't think Rondo can be the best or second best player on a championship team, but yet with a max deal you'd be paying him like one.

Jason Kidd was also an offensively-challenged PG, but he took two teams where he was the unquestioned best player to the Finals. He finished 2nd in the MVP voting one of those years. Only after that did he get a max deal. Rondo hasn't proven he can do anything remotely close to that and at least Kidd could shoot FTs and 3s.

Rondo needs to prove he's worthy of a max deal (if that's what he's hoping for) by playing like one of the best PGs in the league. I don't want the Celtics to give him one just because they don't have anybody else better on the roster right now. That's a mistake desperate teams who overvalue their own guys make.

[Celtics18]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/10340941/a-rajon-rondo-contract-extension-boston-celtics-makes-sense-eventually

Forsberg breakdown of Rondo contract options:

This summer, Boston has two potential extension options for Rondo. The team can tack on a three-year, $44.8 million extension to the final year of his current deal without a signing bonus, which would pay him the scheduled $12.9 million in 2014-15, $13.9 million in 2015-16; $14.9 million in 2016-17; and $16 million in 2017-18. Or, if Boston can stomach a signing bonus payment of $6.6 million, those annual salaries would drop to $11.7 million, $12.5 million and $13.4 million in the extended seasons.

Allowing Rondo to get to unrestricted free agency is a bit more daunting. As a Bird Rights free agent after the 2014-15 season, Rondo could command as much as a five-year max-money deal from Boston, which would put him in line for a potential $100-plus million contract.

Using an estimate of $18.2 million for a first-year max figure (again, the actual number will depend on the cap that season), Rondo's salary charges would grow to $19.6 million in 2016-17, $20.9 million in 2017-18, $22.3 million in 2018-19, and $23.7 million in 2019-20, when he'd be 34 years old.

The signing bonus extension option, please. Rondo making a max deal is way too much. If Rondo is intent on taking this to free agency then sayonara.

I'm a big fan of option one.  If Rondo were to get to free agency, I think something like 4 years at 17 per might be reasonable, but those numbers Forsberg posted are just absurd.  I don't see anybody giving him that money. 

I guess under the CBA that's what he could earn, but I don't think it's what he will earn.

Sign the 3 years, $45million this summer.  Everybody's happy. 

[Jailan34]

So what are the other 25 teams to do with stars who aren't worth surplus value to "max" salary but are still all-nba caliber players?

Trade them to a team willing to overpay for them.

So instead of extending Blake Griffin, LMA, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce, etc, etc.

Teams should trade them because they're not MVP caliber but have contract demands near the maximum?

Just because LeBron, Durant, etc are underpaid doesn't make anyone paid similar amounts or more to them overpaid.

In a way, it does. Because ultimately you have to decide whether you can realistically create a contender around the player making that much money.

Anyway I wasn't referring specifically to the list of players you guys mentioned, I was just responding that trading someone before they demand the max (or any salary deemed too high for their ability) is perfectly justifiable.

Oh okay, so you weren't responding to my point, but a different one? Don't overpay overated guys, that's great but not really what I'm talking about.

I'll restate my point. LeBron/Durant are underpaid, that does not automatically make everyone who's not as good as them overpaid if they are "max" players and have similar salaries.

Jailan34's point set the bar at MVP level to get a max deal. That's not realistic and frankly hasn't even born out in nba history of contenders or the economics of the NBA.

All I'm trying to say is that I do not believe you could build a contender, a serious contender with rondo taking up such a a large portion of the salary cap. Rondo is a great player but to be most effective be needs scoters around him, and scorers generally take up a lot of cap space. Rondo can't get his own for lack of a better phrase, that's why he's not worth the max, he relies on others.

And those others will also have to be paid.

[CFAN38]

tough ones cause Rondo is worth the max based on production but with his style I dont know that the Cs can pay him the max and compete for a ring.

[Enzzo]

tough ones cause Rondo is worth the max based on production but with his style I dont know that the Cs can pay him the max and compete for a ring.

I think this is the main issue