Time for Ainge to make a deal for Melo

[D.o.s.]

I understand a lot of what people are saying here on both fronts.

On one hand yes, Melo is a bit of a black hole.  Yes, his defensive effort is often...questionable. Those aretwo legit weaknesses in his game. 

On the other hand, Carmello is truly an elite scorer (top 5 easy) and is a guy who demands double teams.  He cabshoe in the post, in isolation, from three, off catch-and-shoots, you name it  He gets to the line with regularity and puts opposing defenses in foul trouble.  He's an outstanding rebounder for a small forward and has the versatility to also pay shooting guard or power forward, whichcan cause major matchup nightmares.  Hegets crowds in the door.  More importantly, he is tough.  He's not one of those sissy new age guys like LeBron and Durant.  He'll pay hard through injuries, he well always play with 100% effort, and he has that 'desire towin' that Boston teams love so much.  He's a guy who can go toe to toe with a LeBron or Durant any night.

I don't love him as a player, but I respect him as a player.  As much as I dislike chuckers, Carmello really is a beast and he really is the epitome of what this team needs (one of the things - the other being a great big).

People say his defense sucks, but look at the other leading scorers out there - Durant, Love, Curry, Rose (when healthy).  They all suck on D. The only exceptions are George, Westbrook (an even worse chucker than Carmello) and LeBron, and you aren't getting either of those guys.

Look at last champions and you'll see you really do need an elite scorer to really compete for a title.  There might be the odd exception, but is pretty much a statistical given.

Plus Crawford is one of the worst chuckers on earth and a horrible defender, and Celtics fans loved him here.  Compared to Crawford, Melo is a messiah

Durant does NOT suck at defense.  Hell, he's had better defensive ratings than LeBron this season - I'm not saying he's better than LeBron on defense, but he's been more effective at it this season.

Now that is a prime example of a misleading statistic--LeBron is often asked to guard the other team's best player, 1-4. KD never does that.

[Fafnir]

LeBron's slacked off his defensive effort level compared to the last two seasons.

Durant has given far better overall effort.

[D.o.s.]

LeBron's slacked off his defensive effort level compared to the last two seasons.

Durant has given far better overall effort.

[GreenWarrior]

Always makes me laugh seeing the 'Melo is a selfish chucker with no D'.

Name one player that Melo has had that comes close to KG and Rondo?
He had Amare for 4 months before he lost a leg.
He's had a 32 year old Billups as his best PG and the only decent pass first pg he's had other than Felton.

Give the guy a break, Amare going down crushed any chance of that Knicks plan working out.
Do people remember he carried that crap denver team to the WCF ?

What help has he had?

 

that's complete BS. until 2008. pierce would have killed to have the players that melo played with.

marcus camby, Kenyon martin, andre miller. pierce never had anyone on those 3 guys level...maybe Kenny Anderson could be the equivalent of miller, maybe.

if pierce had those 3 guys early in his career like melo. they would've made the finals back then, at least twice.

[Moranis]

It takes a few years to build a team around somebody of course and building around Melo hasn't worked in either Denver or NY.  Even with a top defensive center in Chandler, neither team was able to do make much post season noise.  Melo, is a talented chucker, personally I enjoyed watching AI more than Melo, and am thrilled neither have been on the C's. 

I'm in the camp that we really try to build our own team via draft picks, and hope for a longer competitive run than we had with the last Big 3 era.

The Knicks problem is the 22 million dollars they are paying Amare to do virtually nothing.  Carmelo was the only person that showed up against Indiana last year, leading the Knicks in points (by more than double) and rebounds (nearly 2 full boards a game more than chandler) and played over 4 minutes more a game than anyone else and was guarding Paul George or David West most of that series. 

Denver had similar issues in that their just wasn't talent around Melo. 

As I said, some of that is Melo's desire to max out every single contract as salaries that big hamstring teams based on the cap rules.  That is on Melo, but Melo has been a very good player on teams that just don't have enough talent to truly compete.

[Greenbean]

I love Melo's scoring game and all but something about his compete level has never appealed to me. Ive read thru this thread and  Ive seen the Pierce comparisons and I get it. Similar career arc so far and actually similar skillsets.

The thing is, I want the superstars on the Celtics to be fiercely competitive. Maybe if I had the chance to see Melo play more often I would feel differently, but so far I have seen a guy whose effort seems to wax and wane and this has been evident on some well built rosters.

Also, Melo is not half of the passer/playmaker Pierce could be when asked to do so.

That being said...I would take Melo for anyone except Rondo on this team. It would definitely be an important building block to get that kind of offensive talent. But Melo needs to be on a well balanced, defensive minded team. He is so talented though he could have a "next evel" in his all around game.

[bleedGREENdon]

Melo would bring us to a championship,

With rondo, he would actually be OUR Ray Allen at times and also our Paul pierce.
Melo is just as good a defender as pierce was, pierce was not a was on defense until KG came.

Rondo , Avery or Scoring SG , Melo, Sully, Defensive center

I also wouldn't mind sully coming off the bench and we get a Kevin love esque player to match with him.

My dream scenerio

Draft Wiggins

Rondo
Wiggins
Green
Melo
Defensive center

Talk about the length defense and offense we'd have
Or another scenerio

Rondo
Avery
Melo
Sully
Embiid

Would take longer to win a chip

Rondo
SG
Parker
Melo
Love

No defense but the offense in the league

Million scenerios but all include signing Melo this offseason. Idk about trading a million assets for him, unless we get rid of Wallace and get Tyson .

[action781]

I might consider this

Anthony & Chandler

for

Humphries, Green, Bass, Bogans, 2014 Boston 1st, 2014 Brooklyn 1st, 2015 LA 1st

I'm not a fan of Carmelo after watching him play this year and seeing a lot of poor and selfish decision making.  That said, if an opportunity arises to buy low on Melo, I think the celtics have to jump on it.  He is still clearly a top 20 NBA basketball player.

A major point of a trade with NYK for Melo would be Tyson Chandler being included.  A deal like this above I would consider, but it's really difficult to include that Boston 2014 1st for me though.  Ultimately, I'd hold out and not be able to include it.

[Moranis]

I might consider this

Anthony & Chandler

for

Humphries, Green, Bass, Bogans, 2014 Boston 1st, 2014 Brooklyn 1st, 2015 LA 1st

I'm not a fan of Carmelo after watching him play this year and seeing a lot of poor and selfish decision making.  That said, if an opportunity arises to buy low on Melo, I think the celtics have to jump on it.  He is still clearly a top 20 NBA basketball player.

A major point of a trade with NYK for Melo would be Tyson Chandler being included.  A deal like this above I would consider, but it's really difficult to include that Boston 2014 1st for me though.  Ultimately, I'd hold out and not be able to include it.

Yeah but if you make that trade tomorrow there is almost no way Boston doesn't make the playoffs this year (without injury) and thus you are talking about 2 mid-first round picks this year and a likely pick in the 20's next year.

[Enzzo]

I'm not a big fan of Melo, but you can't argue the man puts up serious stats.

Any celtics fan (whether they hate Melo or not) should agree that Melo alongside a playmaker like Rondo would be incredibly dangerous to any defense.

Melo has this persona of being a selfish, blind-firing fool but what else is he supposed to do? If he has a talented pass-first PG like Rondo, I think it will show people how great of a player he really is. Of course he will have to change up his game, but if he has the desire to win (which is up for debate) he will.

Having said that, I would only accept this trade if we got Chandler. As much as I would love to see RR/Melo tear up defenses, we really need a big man that can play D.

[Enzzo]

Sorry, double posted

[action781]

I might consider this

Anthony & Chandler

for

Humphries, Green, Bass, Bogans, 2014 Boston 1st, 2014 Brooklyn 1st, 2015 LA 1st

I'm not a fan of Carmelo after watching him play this year and seeing a lot of poor and selfish decision making.  That said, if an opportunity arises to buy low on Melo, I think the celtics have to jump on it.  He is still clearly a top 20 NBA basketball player.

A major point of a trade with NYK for Melo would be Tyson Chandler being included.  A deal like this above I would consider, but it's really difficult to include that Boston 2014 1st for me though.  Ultimately, I'd hold out and not be able to include it.

Yeah but if you make that trade tomorrow there is almost no way Boston doesn't make the playoffs this year (without injury) and thus you are talking about 2 mid-first round picks this year and a likely pick in the 20's next year.

Right, but I'm getting intrigued by the prospect of finishing with a low record and drafting Embiid or Parker to add to this young core we already have in place.  It's more a balance of the two overall scenarios.  If we had the 6th-9th worst record, I'd be all for this trade.  But now that we've fallen to the 4th worst record, I'm starting to come to terms with the chance at adding a decade-long franchise changer.

[Moranis]

I might consider this

Anthony & Chandler

for

Humphries, Green, Bass, Bogans, 2014 Boston 1st, 2014 Brooklyn 1st, 2015 LA 1st

I'm not a fan of Carmelo after watching him play this year and seeing a lot of poor and selfish decision making.  That said, if an opportunity arises to buy low on Melo, I think the celtics have to jump on it.  He is still clearly a top 20 NBA basketball player.

A major point of a trade with NYK for Melo would be Tyson Chandler being included.  A deal like this above I would consider, but it's really difficult to include that Boston 2014 1st for me though.  Ultimately, I'd hold out and not be able to include it.

Yeah but if you make that trade tomorrow there is almost no way Boston doesn't make the playoffs this year (without injury) and thus you are talking about 2 mid-first round picks this year and a likely pick in the 20's next year.

Right, but I'm getting intrigued by the prospect of finishing with a low record and drafting Embiid or Parker to add to this young core we already have in place.  It's more a balance of the two overall scenarios.  If we had the 6th-9th worst record, I'd be all for this trade.  But now that we've fallen to the 4th worst record, I'm starting to come to terms with the chance at adding a decade-long franchise changer.

Yeah, but are Embiid or Parker ever going to be as good as Carmelo Anthony is right now.  That is a question you need to ask yourself.  The other big question is, if you do the trade above is Boston a realistic contender.  I think they are, but I also don't think that team would win the title this year (going through both Indiana and Miami and then beating a western team would be very difficult especially with Rondo still getting his sea legs and Rondo/Melo learning to play with each other), but I would think with the off-season, the trade exceptions, and still all the future picks, Boston would be set up pretty nicely for the 14-15 season (Rondo will be healthier, Sullinger gets another year better, and Anthony and Rondo get their groove together).

[KGs Knee]

Always makes me laugh seeing the 'Melo is a selfish chucker with no D'.

Name one player that Melo has had that comes close to KG and Rondo?
He had Amare for 4 months before he lost a leg.
He's had a 32 year old Billups as his best PG and the only decent pass first pg he's had other than Felton.

Give the guy a break, Amare going down crushed any chance of that Knicks plan working out.
Do people remember he carried that crap denver team to the WCF ?

What help has he had?

 

that's complete BS. until 2008. pierce would have killed to have the players that melo played with.

marcus camby, Kenyon martin, andre miller. pierce never had anyone on those 3 guys level...maybe Kenny Anderson could be the equivalent of miller, maybe.

if pierce had those 3 guys early in his career like melo. they would've made the finals back then, at least twice.

Maybe a team like that would have beaten the Nets. Still would have been stomped by the Lakers/Spurs.

[chambers]

Always makes me laugh seeing the 'Melo is a selfish chucker with no D'.

Name one player that Melo has had that comes close to KG and Rondo?
He had Amare for 4 months before he lost a leg.
He's had a 32 year old Billups as his best PG and the only decent pass first pg he's had other than Felton.

Give the guy a break, Amare going down crushed any chance of that Knicks plan working out.
Do people remember he carried that crap denver team to the WCF ?

What help has he had?

 

that's complete BS. until 2008. pierce would have killed to have the players that melo played with.

marcus camby, Kenyon martin, andre miller. pierce never had anyone on those 3 guys level...maybe Kenny Anderson could be the equivalent of miller, maybe.

if pierce had those 3 guys early in his career like melo. they would've made the finals back the. At least twice.

Melo took the nuggets to the WCF and had to play  against the Lakers  who crushed the Magic 4-1 in the NBA finals.
The nuggets finished first in the west in that year and the next but failed to capitalize on hca in the 08-09 wcf series and lost 2-4 to the Lakers.
I seriously doubt that pierce would have beaten Kobe and Gasol with his best help being an aging Billups and nene hillario with Dantahy Jones and JR Smith as his scoring help.
Keep dreaming.