Pelton: Ranking of Celts assets; Bass + Green "wildly overpaid"

[PhoSita]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

And?

Rudy Gay
Paul Pierce
Danny Granger
Loul Deng
Josh Smith
Hedo Turkoglu

Just to name a few making significantly more money than Green... and I focused on SFs, I didn't stretch the definition towards "wing players".

Anyway you guys want to paint it, there aren't a crap ton of players in the league that can give you what Green can give you at the price he's currently at.

If you're paying less is because you lucked out amid unique circumstances, or the player is still in his rookie contract.

[obnoxiousmime]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

I wouldn't say it's a bargain. Kevin Martin on a 4 yr/28 million deal is like a bargain. Green's closest win shares comp is actually Kyle Korver and Korver recently signed at 4 yrs/24. Afflalo is a huge bargain now at 5 yrs/36.7 (signed in 2011). Yes, I know Martin and Afflalo are SGs.

Caron Butler is kind of an interesting comp. He signed a 5 yr/45 mil deal after his rookie contract expired. The first three years he avg'd 20 ppg, then 16 and 15 ppg his last two seasons.

Another interesting comp is Trevor Ariza, who's a year older than Green. He signed for 5 years, 34 mil at age 24. He'll never be a great offensive player but he's managed to develop a 3 pt. shot and of course he's a great defender. He's averaging 14 ppg this year.

If you want to go by pure numbers Green's closest comp is Danilo Gallinari. Look at these numbers from his last full season:

32.5 mpg, .418 FG%,  1.9 3pg/.373 pct., 4/4.9 FTM/FTA, 5.2 REB, 2.5 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.5 BLK, 16.2 PPG.

Of course Gallinari is now on a horrible 4 yr/42 mil deal considered one of the worst in the league, although a big part of that is his injury problems.

Anyway, you're right there still is a big difference between the midlevel guy and the 8-9 million guy when it comes to scoring. I still wouldn't consider Green a "bargain" though, because that would suggest Ainge could trade him tomorrow to any number of grateful teams.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

I wouldn't say it's a bargain. Kevin Martin on a 4 yr/28 million deal is like a bargain. Green's closest win shares comp is actually Kyle Korver and Korver recently signed at 4 yrs/24. Afflalo is a huge bargain now at 5 yrs/36.7 (signed in 2011). Yes, I know Martin and Afflalo are SGs.

Caron Butler is kind of an interesting comp. He signed a 5 yr/45 mil deal after his rookie contract expired. The first three years he avg'd 20 ppg, then 16 and 15 ppg his last two seasons.

Another interesting comp is Trevor Ariza, who's a year older than Green. He signed for 5 years, 34 mil at age 24. He'll never be a great offensive player but he's managed to develop a 3 pt. shot and of course he's a great defender. He's averaging 14 ppg this year.

If you want to go by pure numbers Green's closest comp is Danilo Gallinari. Look at these numbers from his last full season:

32.5 mpg, .418 FG%,  1.9 3pg/.373 pct., 4/4.9 FTM/FTA, 5.2 REB, 2.5 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.5 BLK, 16.2 PPG.

Of course Gallinari is now on a horrible 4 yr/42 mil deal considered one of the worst in the league, although a big part of that is his injury problems.

Anyway, you're right there still is a big difference between the midlevel guy and the 8-9 million guy when it comes to scoring. I still wouldn't consider Green a "bargain" though, because that would suggest Ainge could trade him tomorrow to any number of grateful teams.

I would say more that Green is paid he's worth. I meant more bargain in the sense that I think the market for him is quite a bit higher than what we paid. So yes, we got him on a bargain, or a discount if you will.

[billysan]

Again, for me, it's all about expectations with Bass and Green.

Bass is not IMHO a starting caliber NBA forward. He is a valuable piece that could maybe spot start. He plays decent defense and can hit the open jumper. He is a 6-7th man off the bench on a contender. The market can decide how much to pay him. I think about 4-6 million per but that is probably low.

Green is a marginal NBA starting forward and should not be considered any more than a 3rd or 4th option. He is talented and athletic enough to be very effective on occaision but lacks consistency (Tony Allen?). He is not IMHO a 10 million per player, but the market will decide.

To count on either of these guys to contribute more than good defense, 10-12 ppg, 4 rpg and excellent effort is a path to disappointment.

I certainly hope Rajon Rondo is of higher value than what this guy thinks.

[317]

am i the only one who would much rather have Thaddeus Young at his $8,850,000/$9,410,869/$9,971,739 over this year and the next 2 then Green and his $8,700,000/$9,200,000/$9,200,000 over this year and the next 2?

[BballTim]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

  There's a pretty good reason a lot of those don't get a ton of minutes.

[Smitty77]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

One by one.  Green is a very below average defender and he is a guard.  Matthews is a guard. Henry is at least a SF, but he barely averages double digits and he has a lower Eff. Rating than Green.  Belinelli is a SG, but he is a bargain.  Carter was NOT a good defender 10 years ago and he certainly is NOT now!!  A bargain, yes.  Young is averaging almost HALF as many rebounds as Jeff and is shooting a lower percentage from the floor.  There would be even less available rebounds IHMO IF he played for the Celtics.  I don't know much about Young's defense, but I think I remember someone mentioning that it is pretty poor. Green is shooting a higher percentage from everywhere than Chandler and he is a better defender.  Plus, Chandler is not exactly a bargain at $6.3 million this year.  Dunleavy is a bargain, but he is more of a SG than a SF. He would and does get obliterated by a strong SF. 

Smitty77

[LooseCannon]

One thing in Jeff Green's favor is that he can be a multi-positional guy.  He's not a good PF and perhaps he is only a situational SG depending on matchups, but he offers a team the chance to go with a smallball or big lineup.

So, he is more valuable than a player who provides equal production but can really only play one position.

[slamtheking]

overpaid, yes.  wildly, that's a bit of a stretch.

[SHAQATTACK]

He is over paid.......for what he actually produces.

The idea is to pay them for what they realistically add to the team

Not what we think they can do........Jeff  Green   .....He looks the part and occasionally plays like a star.....

Pretty is ,  pretty does

[Sketch5]

Compared to the players of the 80's through the 90's, aren't 98% of the players in the NBA "wildy over paid"?

[ssspence]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

And?

Rudy Gay
Paul Pierce
Danny Granger
Loul Deng
Josh Smith
Hedo Turkoglu

Just to name a few making significantly more money than Green... and I focused on SFs, I didn't stretch the definition towards "wing players".

Anyway you guys want to paint it, there aren't a crap ton of players in the league that can give you what Green can give you at the price he's currently at.

If you're paying less is because you lucked out amid unique circumstances, or the player is still in his rookie contract.

So listing a group of players who are also overpaid (except Deng) is justification for overpaying Green to look high on the court 4 out of every 5 games?

You gotta be lucky to pay an average player less than $9mil a year? Really?

Maybe it's ok to just admit Green is overpaid, considering a good percentage of decently productive players (mostly on mediocre teams) are.

[Beat LA]

Who is Pelton?

He's the Dean at Greendale Community College.

I think Green is overpaid but "wildly" seems like an exaggeration. I guess it depends on what you are comparing him to. Yes, there are guys making the mid-level who could also score 17 ppg if you started him 35 minutes - jeez, I didn't realize he had dropped to 15.7 ppg. OK, nevermind. This guy is wildly overpaid.

His 0.5 steals and 1.5 assists are particularly [dang]ing.

On the eye test, there isn't a SF in the league making the mid-level scoring 17 points per game. If someone making about that is scoring that much it's because they're still on their rookie scale deal.

9 million a year for Green's production, years in the league, and age is a bargain.

Gerald Green
Wes Matthews
Marco Belinelli
Vince Carter
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Wilson Chandler
Mike Dunleavy

Some bargain wing scorers making significantly less money than Green.

None of them is scoring 17 points a game.  However, they're all pretty close to Green's per-minute scoring.

Ugh.  Don't remind me of the two guys on that list who should have been Celtics - Matthews on draft night, and Henry this past offseason.  This is really Xavier's rookie year because he didn't see much time in his two previous stops, but the talent is there.  He's a good defender and smart player who really attacks the basket.  Now he does need to work on his free throw percentage (a lot), but I just like his aggressiveness.  He's had games of 10, 11, 14, and 16 free throw attempts, which is something I think we all wish Green would do.  I'm so far beyond done with him that it's not even funny (although I think we've all reached that point, at various levels, with him). 

I still maintain that he would thrive in Memphis.  A straight up swap for Tayshaun Prince works.  Now I know that Prince isn't a fit on this club, but he does become, along with Brandon Bass, an expiring contract after this year.  Both would be great fits on contending teams imo, and hey, maybe we could get something or someone good for them idk.

[crimson_stallion]

Stats guys tend to feel that players whose production consists almost entirely of points have to score with really, really high efficiency to be worth more than mid-level money.

I tend to agree -- Green and Bass are overpaid.  I think using the word "wildly" is a bit of an exaggeration, however.

The problem with this is that Green's production is not only scoring - he's also a very good defensive player.  Defense might not be something that's easy to put a number (hence, measure production) on, but it's something that is important to a lot of GM's out there.