Rondo impresses Gary Payton but dislike everything about the NBA

[Birdman]

The 80s was a great basketball and still had good athletes.  Guys could shoot and had skill across their positions.  Nowadays too many guys are in the league who are not ready.

right and there are too many teams

[crimson_stallion]

He's pretty much spot on with the PGs although I'd add D-Rose when he was healthy too. 

I wouldn't...

Rose is the prototypical modern basketball player.  His entire game is based around flashy offense which in turn is based entirely on his own athleticism.

He has mediocre IQ, zero understanding of fundementals, plays zero defense, and his attitude is as soft as a boiled egg.

I can say the same about Durant as well, except he fairly fundamentally sound...but still plays no defense and is the definition of soft.

Dwight?  Same deal again.  Zero fundamentals, terrible BBIQ, prima-donna attitude.

Rondo and Wade are two of a handful of players in this generation that I actually respect because they have always played hard on both ends of the court, they know how to play, and they are tough as nails. 

[wiley]

Many games today are ruined by the high number of whistles,
many of them either ticky tack or completely phantom calls
based on expectation and not reality, or just plain
unwillingness to let the action run longer...

it disgusts me. 

Some games are handled well on the whole, but usually it's just a portion
of each game where they let them play a bit.

Then when the emotion of the game gets a bit heated (the refs
get scared and start calling everything).

They overcontrol the game based primarily on fear...(instilled partly by design I guess)

I stand by my previous claim that college refs are doing a better job
of not thwarting the spirit of the sport...i.e. not injecting themselves
where they needn't)

[SHAQATTACK]

I agree about the touchy fouls.......it's silly ....these are men .....no t a game for sissy s

He played when a flagrant "one" was probably just an average foul .

Guys faced off but rarely connected or would fight .

Cowans and Bird and Chief working in the paint is my best memories.........yeah little blood ,  but it was good basketball .

[Bahku]

That article would have been much better if it had stuck to just being about what Gary Payton had to say.

Instead, it quickly took a hard turn into a spew of Kelly Dwyer's view of the league.

Kelly:  Next time, put the truth of what you are writing about in the headline.

Or at least put a caveat after the Payton quote so we know to stop reading since after Payton's quote you don't really talk about him or what he had to say.

Congratulations, though, you got the page hit count.

Totally agree ... Dwyer just used Gary as a vehicle to spew his own garbage with, and really didn't directly address Payton's statements in any objective fashion IMO.

I agree with Gary about the touch-fouls in the league now and the absurdities of not letting them "play on" in so many situations ... I'd take the Bird/Jordan era any day over this.

[Clench123]

A lot of looking at the past through rose colored glasses  in this thread.  In the 80s the league had a serious drug problem and was full of guys who could care less about D.  In the 90s a lot games were devolving into 5 on 5 wrestling matches. 

The game has some flaws now, but IMO it's as good as its ever been.

Much better then the stuff we have now. When they show or talk about games of the past do they not show all the fights and hard fouls? Is that not what they show when the Lakers and Celtics play each other? Heat and Knicks? Like it or not it's the stuff that stands out and people remember. And we have nothing like that now but dunks. Dunk after dunk after dunk.

The Celtics or Pistons of the 80's would put a stop to all those easy dunks they have today.

Totally agree.  The fights added another entertainment value to the sport. 

[indeedproceed]

I grew up and live in NY, where I am, MSG network was one of the only places you could get real basketball. That's a lot of exposure at an early age. And I loved it. Watching the glorified fight club called the NY Knicks of the time play was like watching a bear and a ballerina compete in a dance contest where the bear just starts mauling the ballerina and then when she's down, does a bad version of the robot and gets declared the winner because technically it danced, and it was the only one left standing.

[D.o.s.]

I'm curious to see how many CB posters would bring their families courtside for an NBA game if there was more of an opportunity for violence.

Not like watching a boxing match level of violence. Like a Malice at the Palace level of violence, or a Knicks-Nuggets level of violence, or even a Kermit Washington level of violence. The real likelihood that it could spill into the stands.

I also wonder if those same posters would have been willing to go to a G.G. Allin concert.

[Onslaught]

I'm curious to see how many CB posters would bring their families courtside for an NBA game if there was more of an opportunity for violence.

Not like watching a boxing match level of violence. Like a Malice at the Palace level of violence, or a Knicks-Nuggets level of violence, or even a Kermit Washington level of violence. The real likelihood that it could spill into the stands.

I also wonder if those same posters would have been willing to go to a G.G. Allin concert.

I doubt anyone here is looking for that level of violence. But good, physical basketball isn't "violent" and the NBA in trying to tone down the sport has gone way too far. Even Larry Bird has said that the sport has got too soft. I don't think we need the Kevin McHale closeline kinds of plays anymore but we sure need some more contact in the sport. Bring back actual power forwards like Charles Oakley to lay down the law on all these wide open dunks. Not the modern stick figures who can't or won't hit. I have much more respect for the greats of the past because they took a beating out there and still put up the points. Modern stars can't even get looked at wrong without going to the line.

And yes, I'd take my kids (if I had one) to a game with more fights in them.

[Clench123]

Edit

[incoherent]

I'll never forget the playoff games between the Knicks and the Heat in the 90s. That was must see TV.

[wiley]

I'm curious to see how many CB posters would bring their families courtside for an NBA game if there was more of an opportunity for violence.

Not like watching a boxing match level of violence. Like a Malice at the Palace level of violence, or a Knicks-Nuggets level of violence, or even a Kermit Washington level of violence. The real likelihood that it could spill into the stands.

I also wonder if those same posters would have been willing to go to a G.G. Allin concert.

Not looking for fights...looking for game flow.  Fights could be dealt with with massive suspensions.  Of course I'd take my family.  Would be sad if there were a malice in the palace on the night I brought my kids but that and things of that intensity are extremely rare.  I think fighting is a separate issue from phantom and near phantom calls,  which is more of a quality control issue.

[Onslaught]

I'll never forget the playoff games between the Knicks and the Heat in the 90s. That was must see TV.

Yep, I remember all those big time playoffs of the 80's and 90's. But I have a hard time recalling anything outside of the celtics in the last 10 years or so that stands out too much.
Sure I can come up with a few games but for the most part nothing stands out.

And when the Heat and Knicks play now what's one of the first things they show on the TV? It's the fights and bad blood of the past.

When the Celtics and Lakers played in 08 what's the things they showed over and over again? Kevin McHale's close line and Bird and Kareem going jaw to jaw.

For wanting to go away from fights and physical play they sure do like to show the old stuff. Because it's more entertaining in the end.

[indeedproceed]

I'll never forget the playoff games between the Knicks and the Heat in the 90s. That was must see TV.

You're pulling my leg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoTTCeLhLDA&s

[Who]

Yeah, I think the league has declined a lot too.

I really hate how the pick and roll has become so important. It was kinda fun to see 1-2 teams like Phoenix or Orlando run 70-80 PnRs a game a few years ago but now everybody is doing it and is just plain boring. Post play is slowly vanishing from the league. Players like Rip Hamilton and Reggie Miller who ran off of screens are being cut out. Lots of passing and cutting movements are gone. It's just two guys at the top of the key running a PnR while three others stand around watching spotting up 25 feet from the basket.

Even when Utah were a known as a pick and roll team in 90s, with Karl Malone and John Stockton, they only ran it something like 15 times a game. They had a balanced offense and it was beautiful to watch.

Throw in all the fouls, taking continuation plays to a ridiculous place and stoppages which are constantly getting longer and longer ... and players whose games are becoming less diverse and more concentrated in the same couple of areas ... the standard of play just isn't as good as it used to be.