Sullinger's Flagrants

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It's clear that Sully's hand injury is affecting his play, and that Stevens needs to sit him.

Of his two flagrants the other night, the first was a horrible call. The second was a foolish move by Sully, but I don't think he's a dirty player. I'm not worried.

[Finkelskyhook]

It's clear that Sully's hand injury is affecting his play, and that Stevens needs to sit him.

Of his two flagrants the other night, the first was a horrible call. The second was a foolish move by Sully, but I don't think he's a dirty player. I'm not worried.

I agree that he needs to be sidelined while his hand heals.  I think that'll happen anyway as they try to showcase Humphries.

[Billz401]

Most of those calls were BS. Let's face it.

You can't hard foul anybody anymore with a league full of floppers and complainers.

With that said, I love Jared Sullinger, and everything he does on the court. The dude cares about this team, and winning.

The refs are picking on him in my opinion so he stops hard fouling. That's what they do. Call certain calls on a player til' they stop doing it.

THIS! I literally posted a rant on facebook berating these refs this year. the flagrants hes been called for are laughable and whats even worse is that the refs look at the replay for 5 minutes and still call it a flagrant(ie. the flagrant on hickson where he hit ALL ball). The officiating has been just horrendous this year and so inconsistent. And im not trying to blame the refs for us losing either, we'd probably lose anyways but that doesnt make their incompetence acceptable. its really taking away from the game we all love and the NBA will start to lose fans because of it. Im honestly considering giving up watching games this year and trying again next year because it makes my blood boil..

[RJ87]

The hand is definitely bothering him, I'm still trying to figure out why he hasn't been sat yet. We're not trying to win so let the kid sit and heal.

With that said, its gotta be frustrating for him to lose like this and to struggle so much. I think the fouls are directly related to that.

[Snakehead]

If they don't sit him due to his hand I'm going to be really annoyed.  He's obviously hurt and we don't exactly need him to put us over the top.

The hand is definitely bothering him, I'm still trying to figure out why he hasn't been sat yet. We're not trying to win so let the kid sit and heal.

With that said, its gotta be frustrating for him to lose like this and to struggle so much. I think the fouls are directly related to that.

Agreed on all accounts.  He is a career winner so I'm sure being so bad doesn't sit well with him.

[D.o.s.]

Most of those calls were BS. Let's face it.

You can't hard foul anybody anymore with a league full of floppers and complainers.

With that said, I love Jared Sullinger, and everything he does on the court. The dude cares about this team, and winning.

The refs are picking on him in my opinion so he stops hard fouling. That's what they do. Call certain calls on a player til' they stop doing it.

THIS! I literally posted a rant on facebook berating these refs this year. the flagrants hes been called for are laughable and whats even worse is that the refs look at the replay for 5 minutes and still call it a flagrant(ie. the flagrant on hickson where he hit ALL ball). The officiating has been just horrendous this year and so inconsistent. And im not trying to blame the refs for us losing either, we'd probably lose anyways but that doesnt make their incompetence acceptable. its really taking away from the game we all love and the NBA will start to lose fans because of it. Im honestly considering giving up watching games this year and trying again next year because it makes my blood boil..

I liked what Jackie Mac said after the game this morning. In essence, she said that it didn't matter whether the fouls measured up to what longer-time fans of the game think of as "flagrant," because all the players playing today know the rules, and they know what is considered what, and it really doesn't matter what players got away with 20 years ago.

[kozlodoev]

Of his two flagrants the other night, the first was a horrible call.

I found both flagrant to be textbook. You can't hack down on a player from behind and throw him out of bounds even if you did get the ball in the process.

[LooseCannon]

I didn't watch the game, but in a clip posted online, commentary referred to some sort of incident early in the game.  If it is a borderline call, I think there is a legitimate reason for the refs to lean towards calling a flagrant to discourage retaliation.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Of his two flagrants the other night, the first was a horrible call.

I found both flagrant to be textbook. You can't hack down on a player from behind and throw him out of bounds even if you did get the ball in the process.

I didn't think Sully threw him out of bounds; it looked to me like Sully got all ball with his right hand, and there was body contact that caused the other player to fall ... that might be a foul, but I don't see anything flagrant about it.

[guava_wrench]

Most of those calls were BS. Let's face it.

You can't hard foul anybody anymore with a league full of floppers and complainers.

With that said, I love Jared Sullinger, and everything he does on the court. The dude cares about this team, and winning.

The refs are picking on him in my opinion so he stops hard fouling. That's what they do. Call certain calls on a player til' they stop doing it.

THIS! I literally posted a rant on facebook berating these refs this year. the flagrants hes been called for are laughable and whats even worse is that the refs look at the replay for 5 minutes and still call it a flagrant(ie. the flagrant on hickson where he hit ALL ball). The officiating has been just horrendous this year and so inconsistent. And im not trying to blame the refs for us losing either, we'd probably lose anyways but that doesnt make their incompetence acceptable. its really taking away from the game we all love and the NBA will start to lose fans because of it. Im honestly considering giving up watching games this year and trying again next year because it makes my blood boil..

I liked what Jackie Mac said after the game this morning. In essence, she said that it didn't matter whether the fouls measured up to what longer-time fans of the game think of as "flagrant," because all the players playing today know the rules, and they know what is considered what, and it really doesn't matter what players got away with 20 years ago.

Agreed. It isn't like Sully played back then and is being forced to adjust. These were the rules from day 1.

I am all for rules that stop players from trying to compensate for a lack of ability by hammering better players. If you want to compete, get better players. Don't try to match up by resorting to MMA instead of basketball.

I am all for teams doing whatever they have to in order to win. That is their obligation. But I am also all for the league putting rules in place to try to keep players in line. Otherwise we end up with the Knicks and Heat under Riley in the 90s.

Imagine a pickup game where you stop a guy from shooting by holding his head down (like Sully did in his last flagrant). That is far from part of the game.

[winsomme]

  I don't think you can put Crawford's play on Sully. Sully does need to tone it down, hopefully 3 flagrants in 2 games will wake him up to that.

Well I think you can connect them in this regard: When a player puts a personal agenda ahead of team play to the point where it is becoming a defining trait then that opens the door for others to do the same...

I don't think Crawford is necessarily looking at Sully and thinking "Well if Sully can get flagrants then I can play hero ball.." But I do think that both of those things are contributing to a potential culture change where the team stops playing together.

Further, I think Sully's adjustment to knock off these personal battles with opposing bigs should be a clear and very simple thing to do unless he's not basically in control of his emotions during the course of a game...much the way a very talented Rasheed was during his career...I mean how many techs did Rasheed get just because he was Rasheed and not for what he actually did...

[winsomme]

Most of those calls were BS. Let's face it.

You can't hard foul anybody anymore with a league full of floppers and complainers.

With that said, I love Jared Sullinger, and everything he does on the court. The dude cares about this team, and winning.

The refs are picking on him in my opinion so he stops hard fouling. That's what they do. Call certain calls on a player til' they stop doing it.

But perception is unfortunately reality so Sully needs to make the adjustment to end the problem and if he's not able to do that then IMO that says something about his long term success in the league and him being a player that the Cs should try to build around.

It's very "bratty" behavior from a guy that we've always lauded as a coach's son who plays the game the right way.

[winsomme]

I'll worry when they start calling flagrant fouls on fouls that are actually flagrant.

The fouls they're calling him are a joke.

yeah but Sully's demeanor is definitely part of the reason he is getting these calls and he should be able to control that.

Aside from the flagrants, do you not see Sully getting into these game long entanglements with opposing bigs? I really don't see the benefit of them and I'm starting to see the detriments with things like getting flagrants that weren't flagrants...

[SHAQATTACK]

Sully's hand is frustrating him bad.  He can perform up to his expectations .

He is swimming in testosterone and backed by a strong competitive upbringing is making him a bit unhinged .

Mgmt.......Brad, trainers, DA...need to make him sit out like KO till he can play comfortable again.

[kozlodoev]

Of his two flagrants the other night, the first was a horrible call.

I found both flagrant to be textbook. You can't hack down on a player from behind and throw him out of bounds even if you did get the ball in the process.

I didn't think Sully threw him out of bounds; it looked to me like Sully got all ball with his right hand, and there was body contact that caused the other player to fall ... that might be a foul, but I don't see anything flagrant about it.

First, you're now allowed to do a hack-down with both hands the way he did. That always gets tagged as unnecessary/excessive.

Also, that wasn't "body contact that caused the other player to fall", but clearly a move that gave Gibson an impetus out of bounds.

Put the two together, the argument for a Flagrant-1 becomes pretty strong. The second flagrant was just dumb, he should know better.