The Worst, Oft-Repeated Misconceptions About Tankers

[Mr October]

Another piece of the tanking puzzle is that i think most pro tankers like myself only want to see a bad record if the team doesnt have the talent to win at least half their games, while showing that they are improving towards title contention status AND the prospective draft  class is a loaded one.

If we were looking at a 2013 draft class this June, i would not be excited at all about falling down the standings. The reward for enduring the losses wouldn't be worth it.

[Smokeeye123]

The point isnt to win games, it's to win championships. It's all about 18. And if stinking now makes that goal closer, than im for it. And I will admit, i actively root for them to lose every game so we can get a top 7 pick.

[PhoSita]

My point is simple, openly rooting for the team to lose games seriously bothers me.  It goes against the entire point of competition, which is to win.  I get the whole concept of losing now to win later, and what it entails in order to achieve the desired results.  I find it distasteful.

It is what it is, cuz it ain't what it isn't.

I get where you're coming from.  I do.

But to me, this is a



situation.


I wish that the system weren't set up in a way that creates such incentive to lose when a team enters rebuilding.  I would love to see the draft system change. 

But things are what they are and that means that the best thing for this team is to miss the playoffs this year and get a top 10 pick.  That means losing a whole bunch of games.

I'm a fan of the Celtics and I want this team to be really, really good for an extended period of time.  I want the team to get there sooner rather than later.  I want to minimize the amount of time the Celtics spend being in between bad and really good. 

So what am I supposed to do?  Cheer for this team to make the playoffs so they can get murdered and watch some other, similarly terrible team get a top 10 pick?

[JSD]

Tp from me. Amen

[Lucky17]

If the kiddie corps overachieves, and enters February in sole possession of the 8th seed, should Stevens bench players or throw games? Or tell Ainge to ship certain players out of town?

For me, the Celtics' draft position at the end of the season is immaterial. All that matters is continued evaluation and development of the roster, and shrewd trading by Ainge to continue to acquire assets.

If the roster claws its way to a 35 win season and an 8th seed, que sera sera. Losing at all costs is not an acceptable strategy.

[guava_wrench]

Well, I'll never tell another 'fan' how to root for their team.  Do as you please, it's your right.

But I will call a 'tanker' a 'tanker'.

I will also continue to be disgusted by those who want the team to lose (i.e. a 'tanker').

I don't want the team to lose. But I want them to make moves to make the team better down the road. I am not pro-tanking. I am pro-collect assets for 2 or more years down the road.

If making a trade will make us less competitive this season in order to be more competitive in 2 years, that is a good move. Some people can only think now. Some people aren't interested in investing in the future.

Others have different opinions than I on the strength of this years teams. There is nothing wrong with that. They may think we are better than I do. But, sadly, some of these people like to resort to name-calling when others have low evaluations of this team and prefer to see management invest in the future instead of mortgaging the future for an 8th seed.

[guava_wrench]

One thing some don't seem to get is that we would have had to commit to rebuilding at some point. If it has to be done, why not the season with a better draft? This isn't tanking. It is investing in the future instead of mortgaging the future to sustain mediocrity.

[Lucky17]

Seems the shoe is on the other foot: perhaps we need a "Misconceptions about Anti-Tankers" thread.

Personally, I don't think Ainge should be a buyer at the deadline and try to make the playoffs. Anyone who confuses my antipathy towards tanking with a "Let's win the Atlantic!" attitude is sorely mistaken.

[CelticG1]

I'm not against Da worsening an already bad team to position himself better.  I'mnot nnecessarily against that philosophy.

But no matterhow ggood,  bad or Mediocre we are,  I'm cheering for us to win every game.  Since we  are not very ggood and a decent draft coming up I can at least not get too depressed after losses.

Like in 07 with guys like jerrferson and Rondoand now with Sully AAB Green etc.  I want to see these guys do well.  I want to see them win games cause it will show that they are pretty [dang] good. Winning 15 games in season doesn't give me great confidence for the future

[PhoSita]

Seems the shoe is on the other foot: perhaps we need a "Misconceptions about Anti-Tankers" thread.

Personally, I don't think Ainge should be a buyer at the deadline and try to make the playoffs. Anyone who confuses my antipathy towards tanking with a "Let's win the Atlantic!" attitude is sorely mistaken.

This thread was in large part a response to the recent "tankers rejoice" thread, which started as a tongue-in-cheek post by a professed "tanker" but turned into a lot of the same tired arguments the lumped people into the same label groups.  So I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

[nickagneta]

I thinkwith every pro and anti crowd that has existed here at CB(Doc lovers vs. Doc haters, optimists vs. realists, tankers vs anti-tankers) there are a few posters on one or both sides that push the direction of the conversation into a bad direction. And a lot of those posters tend to post in the game threads.

As BBall Tim said, I don't have a problem with people who feel the best thing long term for this franchise is to lose now so that we can win later but the horrid gloating over a loss or the depressive posts that ridicule a win by this team I find terribly distasteful.

If you are a fan of the team, at least support them when they take the court, even if you feel that if they happen to lose it wouldn't be the worst result. But cheering for losses and making fun of the players and coach for winning makes me a little sick to my stomach.

And again, its only a few people who seem to do this but they also love sharing these views in post after post throughout the blog.

[Onslaught]

I understand both arguments for and against. I walk the line myself to tell you the truth. I just feel that some people have a little bit of overoptimistic attitudes about things here sometimes. All the talk about Wiggins this past year has made me almost want to puke when I see his name. That and the fact that he's not impressed me at all this year when watching him.  And we never had the best shot to get him here anyway. It's almost like the days of all the people having Dwight Howard's picture and a Celtics Jersey Photoshopped on him. Some people on here not only want him but truly believed we'd get him somehow. I think some people just go way too far with hopping and not too far with facts and common sense.

[Finkelskyhook]

"The point isnt to win games, it's to win championships."

Please tell that to the person paying $100-200 per ticket to that game where the point isn't to play to win.

[BballTim]

"The point isnt to win games, it's to win championships."

Please tell that to the person paying $100-200 per ticket to that game where the point isn't to play to win.

  That's a point that's lost in this. It's one of the main reasons we don't have a league full of contenders and bottom feeders. Owners want to keep fans, and fans don't want to fund a tank job or watch a team that isn't trying to win.

[PhoSita]

"The point isnt to win games, it's to win championships."

Please tell that to the person paying $100-200 per ticket to that game where the point isn't to play to win.

  That's a point that's lost in this. It's one of the main reasons we don't have a league full of contenders and bottom feeders. Owners want to keep fans, and fans don't want to fund a tank job or watch a team that isn't trying to win.

As I said in the OP, I don't think very many teams are actively trying to lose games.  I mean, even this season, the two teams that everybody expected to be the very worst have actually put together some win streaks.  The Suns are actually a pretty good team.

There are plenty of teams each year, though, that "fund a tank job" in the sense that they knowingly trot out a team that isn't likely to win very many games.  The Celtics are on that list this season.

Understandably, that hurts fan interest in paying money to watch the team.  Personally, I don't have the money to go to games (though maybe these days I do, with how cheap the tickets are, haha).  Still, I can see how that would be frustrating for the season ticket holders and parents who want to take their kids to games.

Again, to those who are morally bothered by it, I say direct your anger to the league.  Teams will continue trotting out young rosters lacking in veteran talent as soon as it makes sense for them to do so. 

Ideally, teams wouldn't have to make drastic moves at the expense of the present in order to improve prospects for the future.  That's not the league we have right now, though.