The Worst, Oft-Repeated Misconceptions About Tankers

[Fafnir]

I just don't like how fans who believe the team isn't good enough and don't want to see the team make the playoffs just because the rest of the East is bad getting lumped into those who just want the Celtics to lose all their games.

Yeah by that definition I'm a tanker too. I also don't want to make win now trades at the cost of future assets and flexibility either.

[Celtics18]

Haha.

IndeedProceed made a joke about this yesterday.

"Only tankers get to use the term tankers."

Haha.  I'm on board with this.

Warning:  A couple of bad words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw

[Roy H.]

All shorthand labeling is bad in that it shorcuts conversation and assumes things. But that is just how people work so we just have to grin and bear it all around.

I agree with your first sentence, and disagree with the second, at least to an extent.

It's impossible to stop people from making assumptions or taking shortcuts, like you said.  However, perjorative labeling shouldn't be happening on our blog:

Do not label or challenge fellow posters -- either individually or collectively -- in a way that is likely to provoke a negative response.  Dependent upon context, examples include, but are not limited to, "fake fan", "bandwagon fan", "not a real fan", "hater", "homer", "koolaid drinker", "when did you stop beating your wife", etc.

I haven't seen people using "tanker" as an attack, but if it is being used to put down other posters, I guess it's something that we need to moderate.  (Easier said than done, I know.)

[Fafnir]

I haven't seen people using "tanker" as an attack, but if it is being used to put down other posters, I guess it's something that we need to moderate.

Right I haven't seen it either, but you can't stop people from making assumptions. You can start all the debunking threads you want and it'll just reinforce it in many peoples minds if they're so inclined. (human psychology is weird)

[SHAQATTACK]

Don't care for tanking in general.   Paying fans deserve a good product too.

But given the overall lack of top talent on this team......something has to be done., tuning your back on a talented draft is not right

Trying to land potential star calibre players though the draft seems like at least one way to do something about the current situation and this year seems to be good one.

I don't think tanking should be the overall plan for a team rebuilding as std.operating procedure .


But, ...the positioning for the best draft picks possible has to be part of an overall rebuilding scheme for a small market team

[LooseCannon]

My disagreement with some tankers is over their belief that it is impossible for the Celtics to become contenders without a high draft pick, whether using it to select a star or to trade for one.

[Jailan34]

My disagreement with some tankers is over their belief that it is impossible for the Celtics to become contenders without a high draft pick, whether using it to select a star or to trade for one.

It's not impossible but it's incredibly hard to truly contend for a title without a superstar player, that's just the nba.

Getting a high draft pick allows us to select a player in the draft we feel can be our next Pierce, it also opens up so much more through the trading route.

Right now we don't have the assets to trade for a true star, getting a high draft pick gives us two avenues to get one. These are our only two options because as we all know free agency isn't an option for us to acquire superstar talent.

[PhoSita]

Nope still is a good word to describe that point of view. I still don't view it as pejorative.

Depending on your definition of the term though I might qualify though lol.

My biggest problem with any of the terms people like to use -- "tankers", "green-teamers", "pessimists / optimists / realists", etc. -- is that it's just a lazy way to avoid actually addressing individual arguments by lumping everybody into rigid extremes.

It's polarizing.  It puts people on strongly opposed sides when really we're all on the same side.

Yeah but you do largely the same thing by "debunking" a bunch of items that aren't assumed by the majority of posters.

Yeah, in order to make this list I had to make some broad statements about what "most tankers" actually believe.

In reality, there's a wide spectrum of beliefs about what should happen.  A lot of different, though similar, arguments being made.  That is what's frustrating about the 'label' talk -- it ignores those differences.

[PhoSita]

Well, I'll never tell another 'fan' how to root for their team.  Do as you please, it's your right.

But I will call a 'tanker' a 'tanker'.

I will also continue to be disgusted by those who want the team to lose (i.e. a 'tanker').

See, I think this attitude is nothing but detrimental to discussion.  Discussion, after all, is what these forums are supposed to be for.

It is your right to find arguments that prioritize the future at the expense of the present distasteful.  It's your prerogative to feel that the Celtics organization owes their fans a good product on the floor every season.

But I think "disgust" is taking it too far.  And by refusing to shed the "tanker" label, you're refusing to acknowledge that the positions you disagree with are based on reasonable beliefs, even though you disagree with them.

I have a problem with that attitude.

[indeedproceed]

I also don't like the word 'Tanker',

[wdleehi]

I just don't like how fans who believe the team isn't good enough and don't want to see the team make the playoffs just because the rest of the East is bad getting lumped into those who just want the Celtics to lose all their games.

Agreed.

But either way you're hoping for the Celtics to lose some games so you're not a true fan and you're a tanker who doesn't know what sports are really about!

I am not hoping they lose.



I don't think they have enough talent to win on a consistent basis to be a team that is over 500 and worthy of a playoff berth. 




I would have loved for some of these players to improve to the point where the team was an over 500 team.  It just isn't realistic. 

[BballTim]

#3. Tankers want the Celtics to be as bad as possible, right away, by any means necessary

Here's where a difficult little thing called nuance comes in.  Arguing that it might be in the best interests of the team to shed future salary and open up playing time for the younger guys by trading away veterans doesn't necessarily track with this "tank! tank! tank!" narrative.

 

  This depends on the tanker. There have been plenty of trade proposals that do little beyond make us worth, frequently justified by showing our lineup going forward including one of Randle, Wiggins or Parker.

#6. Tankers only care about winning championships

This is hardly an insult.  Wanting the Celtics to win a championship is something all Celtics fans share in.  The implication is that tankers just don't really "get" what being a fan is all about.

Wrong! Just because a fan of this team isn't invested in the hodge-podge '13-14 Celtics doesn't mean they can't appreciate the journey.  For many, this rebuilding time is actually more interesting than the last few years, which were all about minor tweaks and hand-wringing about injuries and the longevity of aging players.

  I think there have been way too many posts from people who claim they only care about titles for this to be more than sometimes true, sometimes not.

So how about we just retire the word "tanker" already?  Saying it in a broad way just makes you seem sillier and more narrow-minded than the people you're labeling.

  Maybe it's just me, and this may or may not apply to you directly, but if other tankers were worried about how they're seen by others they shouldn't gloat so much when the team does poorly.

[LooseCannon]

My disagreement with some tankers is over their belief that it is impossible for the Celtics to become contenders without a high draft pick, whether using it to select a star or to trade for one.

It's not impossible but it's incredibly hard to truly contend for a title without a superstar player, that's just the nba.

Getting a high draft pick allows us to select a player in the draft we feel can be our next Pierce, it also opens up so much more through the trading route.

Right now we don't have the assets to trade for a true star, getting a high draft pick gives us two avenues to get one. These are our only two options because as we all know free agency isn't an option for us to acquire superstar talent.

The Celtics can throw more firsts into a deal, so if a true star becomes available, the team has a shot at outbidding other teams.

I disagree with the belief that free agency is not an option.  Create a young, playoff team on the upswing with cap space and some good free agents will be willing come to Boston.  Winning is more important than location for some players.

[PhoSita]

depends on the tanker.

Essentially this is what I'm trying to get at.  The label fails because there's a lot of different opinions and beliefs all bound up in the category of "tanker."

There are some people to whom the misconceptions I mention in the OP actually do apply.  But I'd guess that the majority of people labeled "tanker" don't actually feel that way.

[KGs Knee]

Well, I'll never tell another 'fan' how to root for their team.  Do as you please, it's your right.

But I will call a 'tanker' a 'tanker'.

I will also continue to be disgusted by those who want the team to lose (i.e. a 'tanker').

See, I think this attitude is nothing but detrimental to discussion.  Discussion, after all, is what these forums are supposed to be for.

It is your right to find arguments that prioritize the future at the expense of the present distasteful.  It's your prerogative to feel that the Celtics organization owes their fans a good product on the floor every season.

But I think "disgust" is taking it too far.  And by refusing to shed the "tanker" label, you're refusing to acknowledge that the positions you disagree with are based on reasonable beliefs, even though you disagree with them.

I have a problem with that attitude.

Well, that's fine if you have a problem with my 'attitude'.  I wasn't trying to please you.

That aside, I'll elaborate a bit (for the sake of your 'discussion').  My point is simple, openly rooting for the team to lose games seriously bothers me.  It goes against the entire point of competition, which is to win.  I get the whole concept of losing now to win later, and what it entails in order to achieve the desired results.  I find it distasteful.

It is what it is, cuz it ain't what it isn't.