The Worst, Oft-Repeated Misconceptions About Tankers

[PhoSita]

The pejorative "tanker" gets thrown around here a lot these days.  Here are just a few of the things that people using that term get wrong, over and over again.




#1. Tankers are not true fans

This misconception is easily debunked -- yes, tankers are fans.  They care about the Celtics as a team and as a franchise.  Nobody who takes the time to create a user name and post on a fan forum is a "pink hatter."  Fans come in all shapes and sizes, and different fans have different priorities and ideas about what is best for their favorite team.


#2. Tankers are really common

Wrong again.  Based on the purest form of the implied meaning of the term, very few people are true tankers.  Very few of the people who are labeled with this term actually want to see the team made as bad as possible, right away, by any means necessary, in order to get a top pick.  Speaking of which . . .


#3. Tankers want the Celtics to be as bad as possible, right away, by any means necessary

Here's where a difficult little thing called nuance comes in.  Arguing that it might be in the best interests of the team to shed future salary and open up playing time for the younger guys by trading away veterans doesn't necessarily track with this "tank! tank! tank!" narrative. 

Smart organizations in rebuilding mode know that mid-level veteran role players are a luxury that only truly competitive teams can afford.  Yet, they also know that it rarely makes sense to flat-out dump a player; there has to be value going both ways.

Most tankers, you'll find, believe that the main priority of the Celtics this year should be player development.  This current Celtics team is just not very good; it makes sense for the team to focus on being really good 2-3 years from now, instead of worrying about winning this season.


#4. Tankers believe that a high lottery pick this year will solve all of the Celtics' problems

This is a classic straw man.  A quick search through the history of the draft will show you that plenty of top 5 picks have turned into crap players.  Even top picks that yield a superstar don't always work out for the drafting team, since those players tend to hit their prime just before they hit UFA for the first time.  Any modestly informed fan is aware of this.

None of that changes the fact that the most valuable asset a team can have in this league is a star player, and the cheapest and surest way to secure such a player is via the draft.  The team doesn't even have to use the pick.  A high pick, especially in a strong draft, is a great trade chip (the #5 in '07 made the Big 3 possible).


#5. Tankers want to see the coach and players intentionally lose games

Really?  As covered in #1, "tankers" are real fans, too, which means they probably watch at least some of the games. A team lacking in talent is bad enough to watch; a bad team that actually tries to lose is even worse.

The dream of most "tankers" is that the team plays hard every night, shows some good things, and falls short more often than not.  Not because tankers enjoy watching the Celtics lose, but because this is a team that needs to add talent and every loss gives the team a better chance of avoiding a meaningless and detrimental playoff trip in a historically weak conference.

In any case, it's a non-issue because teams in the NBA hardly ever actually tank.  Real life "tanking" occurs at the executive level, where management makes future-minded moves that inevitably cause the team to be less competitive in the short term.


#6. Tankers only care about winning championships

This is hardly an insult.  Wanting the Celtics to win a championship is something all Celtics fans share in.  The implication is that tankers just don't really "get" what being a fan is all about.

Wrong! Just because a fan of this team isn't invested in the hodge-podge '13-14 Celtics doesn't mean they can't appreciate the journey.  For many, this rebuilding time is actually more interesting than the last few years, which were all about minor tweaks and hand-wringing about injuries and the longevity of aging players.

Many people labeled "tanker" will not be hugely disappointed if the Celtics fail to win a championship in the next ten years -- provided that the team makes smart moves to assemble a talented, exciting young core and strings together a number of highly competitive, entertaining years. 

Fans of all description would probably be pretty happy with that.  Reasonable fans can disagree about the best way to achieve that goal, however, and therein lies the source of so many inane arguments and name-calling around these parts.



So how about we just retire the word "tanker" already?  Saying it in a broad way just makes you seem sillier and more narrow-minded than the people you're labeling.

[Fafnir]

Nope still is a good word to describe that point of view. I still don't view it as pejorative.

Depending on your definition of the term though I might qualify though lol.

[PhoSita]

Nope still is a good word to describe that point of view. I still don't view it as pejorative.

Depending on your definition of the term though I might qualify though lol.

My biggest problem with any of the terms people like to use -- "tankers", "green-teamers", "pessimists / optimists / realists", etc. -- is that it's just a lazy way to avoid actually addressing individual arguments by lumping everybody into rigid extremes.

It's polarizing.  It puts people on strongly opposed sides when really we're all on the same side.

[BudweiserCeltic]

So we are in the rationalization phase now.

[PhoSita]

So we are in the rationalization phase now.

You mean actually backing up positions with well thought out arguments based on reason and not emotion?

Yes indeed!

[wdleehi]

I just don't like how fans who believe the team isn't good enough and don't want to see the team make the playoffs just because the rest of the East is bad getting lumped into those who just want the Celtics to lose all their games. 

[PhoSita]

I just don't like how fans who believe the team isn't good enough and don't want to see the team make the playoffs just because the rest of the East is bad getting lumped into those who just want the Celtics to lose all their games.

Agreed.

But either way you're hoping for the Celtics to lose some games so you're not a true fan and you're a tanker who doesn't know what sports are really about!

[BleedGreen1989]

I have no issue with dumping salary (like Lee) and trying to open up more time for younger guys and more cap space. I also have no real issue with losing this season. I actually prefer to enter the lottery as opposed to making the playoffs as a .500 team. If people want to label me a "tanker" for that, than so be it.

The BIGGEST issue I have with some "tankers" is the talk of trading players than less than they're worth. Again, this is all subjective on how much you value a player, but its simply bad business to trade Rondo, Green, Bradley, ect for less than what you think is fair value, simply because you're hoping for 5-8 more losses.

[PhoSita]

The BIGGEST issue I have with some "tankers" is the talk of trading players than less than they're worth. Again, this is all subjective on how much you value a player, but its simply bad business to trade Rondo, Green, Bradley, ect for less than what you think is fair value, simply because you're hoping for 5-8 more losses.

I agree with that.  I think that most people here would agree with that, too.  You don't jettison players who have value for nothing for the sole purpose of losing more games.

All three players you listed, though, are somewhat polarizing.  There are big differences in how people value them.  So I think that what seems like a "tank trade" to one person is sometimes actually just an honest attempt to float a realistic trade idea.

[Celtics18]

Haha.

IndeedProceed made a joke about this yesterday.

"Only tankers get to use the term tankers."

[PhoSita]

Haha.

IndeedProceed made a joke about this yesterday.

"Only tankers get to use the term tankers."

Haha.  I'm on board with this.

[BleedGreen1989]

The BIGGEST issue I have with some "tankers" is the talk of trading players than less than they're worth. Again, this is all subjective on how much you value a player, but its simply bad business to trade Rondo, Green, Bradley, ect for less than what you think is fair value, simply because you're hoping for 5-8 more losses.

I agree with that.  I think that most people here would agree with that, too.  You don't jettison players who have value for nothing for the sole purpose of losing more games.

All three players you listed, though, are somewhat polarizing.  There are big differences in how people value them.  So I think that what seems like a "tank trade" to one person is sometimes actually just an honest attempt to float a realistic trade idea.

Yeah, I mean every player save maybe the top-10 in the league have wildly varying values by different people so they would be controversial discussions.

It is the minority, but I have seen proposals where the OP even admitted they're trading the player for less than the worth to "further tank" or whatever words they want to use and that's the crowd that bothers me.

[crimson_stallion]

The BIGGEST issue I have with some "tankers" is the talk of trading players than less than they're worth. Again, this is all subjective on how much you value a player, but its simply bad business to trade Rondo, Green, Bradley, ect for less than what you think is fair value, simply because you're hoping for 5-8 more losses.

I agree with that.  I think that most people here would agree with that, too.  You don't jettison players who have value for nothing for the sole purpose of losing more games.

All three players you listed, though, are somewhat polarizing.  There are big differences in how people value them.  So I think that what seems like a "tank trade" to one person is sometimes actually just an honest attempt to float a realistic trade idea.

Yeah, I mean every player save maybe the top-10 in the league have wildly varying values by different people so they would be controversial discussions.

It is the minority, but I have seen proposals where the OP even admitted they're trading the player for less than the worth to "further tank" or whatever words they want to use and that's the crowd that bothers me.

Plus as much as these players may be contraversial in their value, ideas such as trading Rondo for Omer Asik are downright rediculous.  One of these players is an elite PG, a multi-time All Star, a multi-time All Defensive selection and a former NBA Champion.  The other leaves polarising opinions over whether he is even good enough to be a starter on a good team.

These are the type of suggestions that, to me, are just plain silly.

Likewise there are lots of people out there who talk about intentionally holding Rondo out so that we lose more games, and hence get a better shot at a pick.  Not holding him out so that he has less chance of re-injuring himself, just so that we can lose more games.

[KGs Knee]

Well, I'll never tell another 'fan' how to root for their team.  Do as you please, it's your right.

But I will call a 'tanker' a 'tanker'.

I will also continue to be disgusted by those who want the team to lose (i.e. a 'tanker').

[Fafnir]

Nope still is a good word to describe that point of view. I still don't view it as pejorative.

Depending on your definition of the term though I might qualify though lol.

My biggest problem with any of the terms people like to use -- "tankers", "green-teamers", "pessimists / optimists / realists", etc. -- is that it's just a lazy way to avoid actually addressing individual arguments by lumping everybody into rigid extremes.

It's polarizing.  It puts people on strongly opposed sides when really we're all on the same side.

Yeah but you do largely the same thing by "debunking" a bunch of items that aren't assumed by the majority of posters.

Plus several of your "debunks" are pro-blow it up (more) stated position in various threads.

All shorthand labeling is bad in that it shorcuts conversation and assumes things. But that is just how people work so we just have to grin and bear it all around.