Now that Lee is gone, how bout Bass+Bogans for Asik?

[chambers]

Ok so Lee is gone and that was a pretty nice move by Danny to clear Lee's 5 million per year.

Houston didn't want Lee and Bass- presumably because of Lee's extra 2 years @ $5 million per year. But would they bite on a Bass+Bogans for Asik trade with Bogans expiring? I wonder if Danny could even ask for a young asset or 2nd round pick in return? They'd be getting a solid jumpshooting big for the playoffs+veteran presence in Bass+Bogans, and they'd also be clearing Asik.

Celtics send:
Bass 6.45 million
Bogans 5 million

Rockets send:
Asik 8.37 million

Bogans expires and I'm wondering if Rockets could also make their own trade exception with Asik for Bogans? I think they could make one with Bass too right?

Losing Bass probably hurts our immediate win chances but we lock up a nice solid big man for next year and shed 3 million more off this years cap.
After moving Lee, our cap situation would be almost exactly the same next season but we will have axed Lee's 5 million, Bass's 6.5 million and acquired Asik for 8.3 million against the cap.

Does Danny do it now that Lee is gone or was moving Lee the major incentive for doing an Asik deal instead of Asik's actualy play/value?
You'd have to assume the Rockets consider this right?

[LarBrd33]

So yeah you're right it would be 11.45 mil for 8.37 mil this year.  Bogans expires so all they would have on the books next year would be Bass (6.95).

Digging deeper... from a ledger standpoint, half the season is over...

So it's like... 3.2 mil left to Bass this year.  2.5 mil left to Bogans.   6.95 left for Bass next year.  That's a total financial commitment over the next two years of 12.65 million.

Meanwhile, half the season is over for asik so he's owed like 4.2 mil this season right?  And then isn't his cap hit only 8.3 mil next season even though he'll be paid 16 mil?  16 + 4 = 20 mil in financial commitment.  No?

Houston would save a lot of money.

[slamtheking]

if C's offered that Houston would certainly want a couple of picks.  Bogans is a non-factor and Asik is a better player than Bass (or at least plays a position that's more difficult to fill). 

I think it's more likely it'll be Bass with Crawford and possibly Brooks as well as possibly the Clips pick next year for Asik

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6398936

[nickagneta]

Given Bogans has been on the team all year and is quite expendable, don't you think this would have already been discussed by Ainge and Morey and soundly rejected?

If all the Rockets wanted was salary relief, I believe Asik would have been gone already.

[Tr1boy]

Danny won't give up a 1st so likely a third team has to be involved

The deal that would work

To Cavs: Green
To Rockets: Varajao
To Celtics: Asik

But Cavs are hesitant to give up Varajao

[BballTim]

So yeah you're right it would be 11.45 mil for 8.37 mil this year.  Bogans expires so all they would have on the books next year would be Bass (6.95).

Digging deeper... from a ledger standpoint, half the season is over...

So it's like... 3.2 mil left to Bass this year.  2.5 mil left to Bogans.   6.95 left for Bass next year.  That's a total financial commitment over the next two years of 12.65 million.

Meanwhile, half the season is over for asik so he's owed like 4.2 mil this season right?  And then isn't his cap hit only 8.3 mil next season even though he'll be paid 16 mil?  16 + 4 = 20 mil in financial commitment.  No?

Houston would save a lot of money.

  I think Asik's cap hit is $8.3M for both this year and next but his salaries are $5M and $15M or so.

[LarBrd33]

So yeah you're right it would be 11.45 mil for 8.37 mil this year.  Bogans expires so all they would have on the books next year would be Bass (6.95).

Digging deeper... from a ledger standpoint, half the season is over...

So it's like... 3.2 mil left to Bass this year.  2.5 mil left to Bogans.   6.95 left for Bass next year.  That's a total financial commitment over the next two years of 12.65 million.

Meanwhile, half the season is over for asik so he's owed like 4.2 mil this season right?  And then isn't his cap hit only 8.3 mil next season even though he'll be paid 16 mil?  16 + 4 = 20 mil in financial commitment.  No?

Houston would save a lot of money.

  I think Asik's cap hit is $8.3M for both this year and next but his salaries are $5M and $15M or so.

Got ya.  So it still would save them money

[BballTim]

So yeah you're right it would be 11.45 mil for 8.37 mil this year.  Bogans expires so all they would have on the books next year would be Bass (6.95).

Digging deeper... from a ledger standpoint, half the season is over...

So it's like... 3.2 mil left to Bass this year.  2.5 mil left to Bogans.   6.95 left for Bass next year.  That's a total financial commitment over the next two years of 12.65 million.

Meanwhile, half the season is over for asik so he's owed like 4.2 mil this season right?  And then isn't his cap hit only 8.3 mil next season even though he'll be paid 16 mil?  16 + 4 = 20 mil in financial commitment.  No?

Houston would save a lot of money.

  I think Asik's cap hit is $8.3M for both this year and next but his salaries are $5M and $15M or so.

Got ya.  So it still would save them money

   Saves them money, adds a big to the team (Asik doesn't play anymore, does he) and removes a possible distraction (Houston started out 13-5 and are 9-8 since).

[chambers]

Given Bogans has been on the team all year and is quite expendable, don't you think this would have already been discussed by Ainge and Morey and soundly rejected?

If all the Rockets wanted was salary relief, I believe Asik would have been gone already.

I think they would have discussed it but I don't think Danny takes on Asik without having Lee gone first. That was the sticking point- Danny didn't want Lee, and neither did Morey.

Understand that the pressure here on is on the Rockets.

Danny knows that Morey is going to move Asik by the February deadline. He's got 6 weeks to trade him or they'll be paying Asik 20 million over 2 years as a chair warmer for Dwight Howard who does not want to play behind Dwight. I think salary relief and not going over the cap are definitely his main objectives.

The longer Ainge waits, the more desperate Morey will become and he'll settle for something like a Bass+Bogans deal for the salary relief. Is anyone giving up a first round pick for this guy? I doubt it.

Danny is in the drivers seat either way you look at it.
My take on the situation is simple:

Morey declined Lee, knowing that Bogans+Bass was an option if they couldn't get a deal done by December 19th.
Danny wasn't prepared to do anything unless Lee was gone whilst putting pressure on Morey to eventually accept his terms.

[jambr380]

I don't know about Bass and Bogans. I know that this clears salary for next year, but it basically only gives them one usable player.

I think Crawford is much more likely to be included. With him expiring and his actual talent, I would hope we could avoid giving them a pick. The money owed next year to Asik is just awful to think about. I realize that the cap hit isn't that bad, but the owners still have to pay.

If we are doing this deal, we better be ready to compete next year and I am not sure Asik puts us in position to do so.

[jambr380]

...or if Houston is just looking to save money, we could trade Bass and Pressey or Bass and Brooks. We gained a little bit of space with the Bayless trade and we can afford to take on the little bit of extra that Asik is owed.

Hey, it works on the trade machine 

[BballTim]

Given Bogans has been on the team all year and is quite expendable, don't you think this would have already been discussed by Ainge and Morey and soundly rejected?

If all the Rockets wanted was salary relief, I believe Asik would have been gone already.

  Danny may have offered either Bass and Bogans or Bass and Lee and a pick. In that case, Bass and Bogans and a pick would be a better offer. I don't think that Danny was going to bid against himself for Asik. He made an offer and nobody topped it so it must have been at least reasonable. If the Memphis trade really is just Lee for Bayless then Danny could sweeten the offer a little based on the savings from the Lee deal.

[nickagneta]

Given Bogans has been on the team all year and is quite expendable, don't you think this would have already been discussed by Ainge and Morey and soundly rejected?

If all the Rockets wanted was salary relief, I believe Asik would have been gone already.

I think they would have discussed it but I don't think Danny takes on Asik without having Lee gone first. That was the sticking point- Danny didn't want Lee, and neither did Morey.

Understand that the pressure here on is on the Rockets.

Danny knows that Morey is going to move Asik by the February deadline. He's got 6 weeks to trade him or they'll be paying Asik 20 million over 2 years as a chair warmer for Dwight Howard who does not want to play behind Dwight. I think salary relief and not going over the cap are definitely his main objectives.

The longer Ainge waits, the more desperate Morey will become and he'll settle for something like a Bass+Bogans deal for the salary relief. Is anyone giving up a first round pick for this guy? I doubt it.

Danny is in the drivers seat either way you look at it.
My take on the situation is simple:

Morey declined Lee, knowing that Bogans+Bass was an option if they couldn't get a deal done by December 19th.
Danny wasn't prepared to do anything unless Lee was gone whilst putting pressure on Morey to eventually accept his terms.

Judging from business negotiations I have had that's not how it works. That thinking, and please don't take this the wrong way, is too narrow minded for business. A much wider view of the entire situation is usually taken and talked about by both sides. I am 1000% sure Danny wasn't thinking I have to get rid of Lee first and only then will I make a Bogans Bass trade. As I said, that's just not very smart business.

If you have a product and want to sell it for a dollar but decide you can live with selling it for 90 cents and no less, if someone wants to negotiate the price they will come in at 75 cents go to 85 cents and then the real negotiations begin.

Bogans Bass is a 75 cent offer.
Bogans Lee is an 85 cent offer.
Bogans Lee and a pick is probably a 95 cent to one dollar offer.

I am sure both parties discussed what their end game was here and needs. I am sure multiple offers and demands were put on the table in both directions and after several long discussions Morey and Ainge came to their final offers and neither was good enough.

If Bass Lee wasn't good enough in a completely manufactured deadline infused market like Morey created, I am sure a lesser offer isn't going to get the job done now.

[BballTim]

Given Bogans has been on the team all year and is quite expendable, don't you think this would have already been discussed by Ainge and Morey and soundly rejected?

If all the Rockets wanted was salary relief, I believe Asik would have been gone already.

I think they would have discussed it but I don't think Danny takes on Asik without having Lee gone first. That was the sticking point- Danny didn't want Lee, and neither did Morey.

Understand that the pressure here on is on the Rockets.

Danny knows that Morey is going to move Asik by the February deadline. He's got 6 weeks to trade him or they'll be paying Asik 20 million over 2 years as a chair warmer for Dwight Howard who does not want to play behind Dwight. I think salary relief and not going over the cap are definitely his main objectives.

The longer Ainge waits, the more desperate Morey will become and he'll settle for something like a Bass+Bogans deal for the salary relief. Is anyone giving up a first round pick for this guy? I doubt it.

Danny is in the drivers seat either way you look at it.
My take on the situation is simple:

Morey declined Lee, knowing that Bogans+Bass was an option if they couldn't get a deal done by December 19th.
Danny wasn't prepared to do anything unless Lee was gone whilst putting pressure on Morey to eventually accept his terms.

Judging from business negotiations I have had that's not how it works. That thinking, and please don't take this the wrong way, is too narrow minded for business. A much wider view of the entire situation is usually taken and talked about by both sides. I am 1000% sure Danny wasn't thinking I have to get rid of Lee first and only then will I make a Bogans Bass trade. As I said, that's just not very smart business.

If you have a product and want to sell it for a dollar but decide you can live with selling it for 90 cents and no less, if someone wants to negotiate the price they will come in at 75 cents go to 85 cents and then the real negotiations begin.

Bogans Bass is a 75 cent offer.
Bogans Lee is an 85 cent offer.
Bogans Lee and a pick is probably a 95 cent to one dollar offer.

I am sure both parties discussed what their end game was here and needs. I am sure multiple offers and demands were put on the table in both directions and after several long discussions Morey and Ainge came to their final offers and neither was good enough.

If Bass Lee wasn't good enough in a completely manufactured deadline infused market like Morey created, I am sure a lesser offer isn't going to get the job done now.

  The problem for Houston is they don't have a ton of great options. They can (captain obvious) either trade Asik or keep him. If they keep him he's not playing, he's probably something of a distraction and he's going to get a rather large payday while (potentially) wasting a roster spot for a contending team. So if he embraces his reserve role and makes $15M for 12-15 minutes a game it's far from ideal, if he stays a malcontent it's worse.

  The other option is to trade him. The problem there is that no team currently seems interested in offering what Houston considers an acceptable package for Asik. Also, his value is dropping. This year he's making a third of what he will next year, so his per game pay rate is basically increasing. If they'd have traded him before the season he'd be getting about $20M for 160 or so games, at the trade deadline it would be about $17.5M for about 120 games, next offseason it's $15M for 80 games.

  If a team has an injury or unexpectedly finds itself a contender then he'll be more valuable, if not you'd have to wonder why anyone would offer more at the trade deadline than they did last month. The real issue for Houston is that Asik's value as an asset is potentially higher than his value as a malcontent. Depending on your point of view, you're either trading a valuable center for pennies on the dollar or you're trading a highly paid malcontent for someone that will help your team more than he will (or at least hurt it less).

[LarBrd33]

I'm not interested enough to read all the posts in this thread.  Just want to chime in that I agree Bogans has more trade value than Lee. 

If you're looking at trade value as "pros/cons" type of thing.  I think Lee's contract (cons) outweighs his production (pros).  When you tally it all up, he's got negative trade value.

Alternatively, if you weigh pros/cons of Bogans... 5 mil expiring contract far outweigh his lack of production.  He has positive trade value... especially for a rebuilding team.  The idea that Ainge would have rather kept Bogans over Lee makes plenty of sense.   Hanging onto Bogans makes a lot of sense... You never know when some team might look to dump a highly paid, but very effective player.  For instance, I'm certain you could trade Bogans + Humph + one of our young players or a pick and get Pau Gasol in return.   You wouldn't be able to do that deal if you included Lee in the deal instead of Bogans. 

I bet you could offer the Hornets the expiring contracts of Humph and Bogans and get back Eric Gordon and Rivers.  Not that Boston would do that... but some teams have big contracts (gordon, for instance) that they'd gladly dump.