If Lance Stephenson is worth 7-9 mil, how much for Bradley?

[Fafnir]

I can't see giving Bradley or Stephenson that sort of money on this team.  As such, I would try to trade Bradley during the season for someone I think makes more sense long term.

Maybe something like this:

Waiters, Bennett, Bynum, Jack

for

Green, Lee, Bass, Bradley, Bogans

Boston upgrades (imo) at SG with Waiters, gets a real PG in Jack (to start now and be the third guard when Rondo is back), and takes flyers on Bynum and Bennett.  Losing Green is tough, but given the rest of the trade I think it would be worth it.

I don't think much of Waiters or Bennett so I wouldn't want to do this deal. Waiters has played a lot worse than Bradley this year and is only a year younger.

Bennett is looking like a a complete bust right now, a tweener who is out of shape and has health issues hurting his attempts to get fit.

A lot worse?  Waiters is scoring more on the same attempts in less minutes.  He is a much better passer than Bradley, though Bradley is clearly a better defender.  Waiters is in a worse situation with ball hogs and terrible attitudes and what seems to be far worse coaching.  He is a year younger with better size and a much better contract situation.  I think Waiters could be a legit scorer something I don't see in Bradley, and I believe that is a harder trait to fill than what Bradley brings.

His TS% is lower than Bradleys, scores 1 more point on 2 more FTAs and the same FGA. So he's scoring 1 more point on one more shot. He gets 1 more assist per game along with one more turnover per game and Bradley is a better rebounder.

Oh and his defense sucks, his attitude sucks, and he thinks he's as talented as Kyrie Irving so that's fun.

If Waiters can be a legit scorer he should really be better than Avery Bradley on offense, which he isn't yet and that's a big problem. At least Bradley brings it on the other side of the ball and afaik doesn't think he's better than Rondo.

[obnoxiousmime]

I don't want any part of Waiters. He would not be a pleasant player on a young team without strong veteran leadership. If he already thinks he's Irving's equal, how inflated would his ego be on the Celtics? He'd spend the next two years trying to build up his stats for his big payday.

[Donoghus]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

[indeedproceed]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

[Kane3387]

$3-4 million for Bradley

I'd love that. I'd give him no more the six.

[Moranis]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

I live in Cleveland and a large portion of the media and fan base, side with Waiters over Irving in that whole dispute and in addition  believe it was blown way out of proportion by the national media.  It was more of a non-issue than anything, but a lot of Clevelanders are fed up with Irving and his attitude.  He takes long stretches off, is a ball hog far too often, and many feel he is the issue.  Couple that with management bending over backwards for him and he seems to be the biggest issue in Cleveland.

[indeedproceed]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

I live in Cleveland and a large portion of the media and fan base, side with Waiters over Irving in that whole dispute and in addition  believe it was blown way out of proportion by the national media.  It was more of a non-issue than anything, but a lot of Clevelanders are fed up with Irving and his attitude.  He takes long stretches off, is a ball hog far too often, and many feel he is the issue.  Couple that with management bending over backwards for him and he seems to be the biggest issue in Cleveland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

[Who]

I don't think Lance Stephenon's market value has much impact on Bradley. As players, they are very different and what one gets in free agency will not be telling of the other one's value.

Lance Stephenson is a good sized two guard at 6-5 with great physique / strength (220lbs) and excellent length. His physical talent and skill-set allows him to play three positions (PG, SG, SF). Avery Bradley is a combo guard (6-2, 205lbs). A tweener whose limited ball-handling and passing makes him ill-equipped to run a team and his lack of size at SG still leaves many people skeptical of his ability to be a full time starting SG.

Lance Stephenson is an exceptional rebounding two guard while Avery Bradley is a limited rebounding SG but an above average rebounding PG. Lance Stephenson is an excellent secondary ball-handler, passer and playmaker while Bradley continues to struggle provide anything more than adequate ball-handling and passing even when moved off the ball to SG.

So skill-set, physical talent and questions over fit make Bradley a very different proposition in free agency.

And because of those reasons -- particularly concerns over how Bradley will fit alongside other guards due to lack of size + PG skills -- I don't expect there to be much (if any) interest in Avery Bradley for (1) a contract worth more than the MLE (2) and because A.Bradley will be a restricted free agent, I expect Danny Ainge will match -- or at least be able to convince anyone that he will match -- any MLE offers given to Bradley. Which I think will allow Danny Ainge to cut down the market for Bradley and be able to talk him into taking a less than MLE offer. Say around $4 million per annum.

[Chief]

As well as he has been shooting the ball, I think someone will offer him $7-$9 million. Should Danny match? I think it all depends on the chemistry and team record with Rondo. The last I remember, when both fully healthy, they looked great together.

[Who]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

I live in Cleveland and a large portion of the media and fan base, side with Waiters over Irving in that whole dispute and in addition  believe it was blown way out of proportion by the national media.  It was more of a non-issue than anything, but a lot of Clevelanders are fed up with Irving and his attitude.  He takes long stretches off, is a ball hog far too often, and many feel he is the issue.  Couple that with management bending over backwards for him and he seems to be the biggest issue in Cleveland.

It's been nice to see Kyrie Irving get some more criticism over the last few months / year.

It was frustrating to see him get a free pass by so many people for all of the things he was doing wrong in his rookie and throughout most of his second year + to be, basically, crowned as one of the top PGs in the league before he ever actually reached that stage.

Kyrie Irving most definitely has the potential to be that (one of the top PGs, even to become the very best PG in the league) but he hadn't reached that level yet (rookie, 2nd year) and still hasn't this year. Kyrie had too many flaws in his game that he needed to work on and develop before he reached that stage.

Hopefully, this recent growing criticism of him will continue and give Kyrie the kick up the butt he needs to push on and fulfill his potential rather than coast by on his talent alone which all too often has been the case in his career to date.

[action781]

To compound on what Fafnir and maybe others have said,

What buyers are going to be out there for Bradley that can afford to give him more than the MLE?  Are there any teams that would sign him and insert him as a starting SG?

The No's (don't need to read, this is me doing my research)

Lakers?  Obviously no.
Toronto?  Not with Landry Fields and Derozan at SG.
Washington?  Not with Beal at SG.
Memphis?  Small possibility but very unlikely.  Would need Z-Bo to opt out to have enough room.  Is Bradley an upgrade over Tony Allen?
Golden State?  No way, will need a center.
Dallas?  No, Ellis seems to be working out there at SG.
San Antonio?  All set at SG.  Only would sign him on a bargain.
Orlando?  Already have a few quality SGs and I think are looking for that superstar player.
Sacramento?  I think they want to give McLemore a real shot as their franchise SG.
Phoenix?  I don't see them letting go of Bledsoe this offseason, but this team could go a number of directions this offseason.
Milwaukee?  I can't see them spending that cap space on a role player without a go-to guy in place.


The possibly's

New Orleans?  Interesting!  They have their star player in place (Davis) so don't need cap space for that.  I think Bradley would be a very nice complementary piece next to Holiday in the backcourt.  The problem is that they have Gordon signed at SG for a lot of money.  If they believe they could move Gordon, I think this would be a sensible signing.  SF is their more pressing issue right now though.
Detroit?  Possibly, SG is the weak link in their starting lineup.  Their management tends to be rather unpredictable.
Cleveland?  Possibly.  That roster seems to be full of unfitting pieces in need of a total makeover.  I don't see them giving up on Waiters this early though.
Charlotte?  Possibly.  I think they will be looking to go after a more marquee player with that cap space, but another team that is managed somewhat unpredictably.
Atlanta?  Another possibility as Korver can slide to SF.  I think they only do it on a bargain deal though.
Utah?  A wildcard possibility as they'll have a huge amount of cap space.  Who knows what they'll do if they don't get the chance to spend it on their target players.
Philadelphia?  If Turner lasts past the trade deadline, I think they might let Turner walk this offseason is the price is too high, in which case they could sign Bradley.  MCW's height at PG could help cover AB's height at SG.


Summary:  I think the Celtics do need to be concerned that at least 1 team from those possibly's could offer Bradley $7M per season.  I think that may be too much for the celtics to match with his limited ceiling and no real plan to contend in place.  I'd match anything at the MLE or less.

[BballTim]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

I live in Cleveland and a large portion of the media and fan base, side with Waiters over Irving in that whole dispute and in addition  believe it was blown way out of proportion by the national media.  It was more of a non-issue than anything, but a lot of Clevelanders are fed up with Irving and his attitude.  He takes long stretches off, is a ball hog far too often, and many feel he is the issue.  Couple that with management bending over backwards for him and he seems to be the biggest issue in Cleveland.

  Irving's a good scorer but that seems to be the extent of his contributions to his team.

[Fafnir]

To pile on with what some other have said, I just don't see what the fascination with Waiters is besides that dangerous allure of "potential".

He seems to have a ceiling of a glorifed 6th man with a bad attitude to me.  Celtics don't need that.

Dion Waiters. The guy you really don't want to beat you, but really don't want on your team even more.

I live in Cleveland and a large portion of the media and fan base, side with Waiters over Irving in that whole dispute and in addition  believe it was blown way out of proportion by the national media.  It was more of a non-issue than anything, but a lot of Clevelanders are fed up with Irving and his attitude.  He takes long stretches off, is a ball hog far too often, and many feel he is the issue.  Couple that with management bending over backwards for him and he seems to be the biggest issue in Cleveland.

  Irving's a good scorer but that seems to be the extent of his contributions to his team.

Yeah and that's where he needs to grow from. A big part of the problem is that Waiters is a similar player in that his value is all off his offense. Mostly his own offense to boot (like Irving)

[Interceptor]

If he averages a good 40+% on his 3s for the season he'll still be a small guard, who doesn't get FTs, doesn't get assists, and has been sketchy overall at rebounding (though good in December)

@bolded, I think that this is a system thing. IIRC, during one of the broadcasts Tommy mentioned something about how they are having the big guys box out and the guards fish for rebounds. It's either that, or he's taken to Rondo-style freelancing, because he's under the basket a lot for some reason.

[Fafnir]

If he averages a good 40+% on his 3s for the season he'll still be a small guard, who doesn't get FTs, doesn't get assists, and has been sketchy overall at rebounding (though good in December)

@bolded, I think that this is a system thing. IIRC, during one of the broadcasts Tommy mentioned something about how they are having the big guys box out and the guards fish for rebounds. It's either that, or he's taken to Rondo-style freelancing, because he's under the basket a lot for some reason.

Stevens and some of the players interviewed about that, I'm sure Tommy mentioned it too. How they were moving to have the guards focus on hunting down boards instead of leaking out.