Jeff Green so far this year: Better, worse or what you expected?

[obnoxiousmime]

I feel like Green is what most people were saying he was, since what he is doing now is more of what he always did.

Green has been the victim of high expectations since being drafted #5 overall (I don't know what the expectations vs. results for him were at Georgetown). Also, the Sonics traded an all-star in Ray Allen to acquire him. You're expected to be a star if you enter the league under those circumstances.

Instead of being commended for how consistent his statistics have been throughout his career, he's criticized for not being aggressive enough and never making the leap.

Yes, he has great measurables and athleticism and his game to game performance should be more consistent. However, as we all know he is a tweener in the NBA. Why not praise him for how he developed his 3 pt. shot and improved his D against SFs? He's worked hard to fit his game into the 3 position.

Looking at his DraftExpress profile, this description of his summer league play before his second year is eerily prescient (bold is mine):

This was a solid, albeit uneven performance from last year’s #5 draft pick. Green was criticized at times in college for not being aggressive enough offensively, but you never would have guessed that based off the way he played in day one. Green’s body looks good and he appears to be taking things quite seriously, which is always a good sign.

Green scored in a variety of ways, whether it was off post ups, turnaround jumpers, or mid-range and long range baskets, while being very assertive getting to the free throw line. His ball-handling skills are still nothing to write home about, even if he can attack the basket effectively on straight-line drives. The next step for him will be adding in the ability to create for himself from the perimeter using advanced moves, changing directions with the ball, and so forth. He’s obviously a very versatile guy (even if we certainly missed some passing in his game…) and at age 21, is obviously still not a finished product just yet.


You can't give him a personality transplant or make him a fully natural 3 with great handle and dribble-drive/passing ability. Nor will he ever have the type of body that can bruise down low. He is what the scouting report said he was, albeit with some improvement due to his work ethic. Being taken 5th overall by the great Sam Presti shouldn't hang over his career at this point.

[cltc5]

I feel like Green is what most people were saying he was, since what he is doing now is more of what he always did.

Green has been the victim of high expectations since being drafted #5 overall (I don't know what the expectations vs. results for him were at Georgetown). Also, the Sonics traded an all-star in Ray Allen to acquire him. You're expected to be a star if you enter the league under those circumstances

Instead of being commended for how consistent his statistics have been throughout his career, he's criticized for not being aggressive enough and never making the leap.

Yes, he has great measurables and athleticism and his game to game performance should be more consistent. However, as we all know he is a tweener in the NBA. Why not praise him for how he developed his 3 pt. shot and improved his D against SFs? He's worked hard to fit his game into the 3 position.

Looking at his DraftExpress profile, this description of his summer league play before his second year is eerily prescient (bold is mine):

This was a solid, albeit uneven performance from last year’s #5 draft pick. Green was criticized at times in college for not being aggressive enough offensively, but you never would have guessed that based off the way he played in day one. Green’s body looks good and he appears to be taking things quite seriously, which is always a good sign.
Green scored in a variety of ways, whether it was off post ups, turnaround jumpers, or mid-range and long range baskets, while being very assertive getting to the free throw line. His ball-handling skills are still nothing to write home about, even if he can attack the basket effectively on straight-line drives. The next step for him will be adding in the ability to create for himself from the perimeter using advanced moves, changing directions with the ball, and so forth. He’s obviously a very versatile guy (even if we certainly missed some passing in his game…) and at age 21, is obviously still not a finished product just yet.



You can't give him a personality transplant or make him a fully natural 3 with great handle and dribble-drive/passing ability. Nor will he ever have the type of body that can bruise down low. He is what the scouting report said he was, albeit with some improvement due to his work ethic. Being taken 5th overall by the great Sam Presti shouldn't hang over his career at this point.

So he's basically the same player, 8 years later, with the same issues.  Shame on Jeff green or any celtics fan that doesn't expect better.  This personality argument  is lame too. Bass is one of the quietest guys on the team, but when he gets on the court, he gets after it.  And last year we seen an agreesive, charismatic Jeff green, and it was fun to watch.  This year we've seen more of a derp Jeff green.  And ya know what, that's all on him, that's all his attitude.  Hell I'd think that if I knew I had a chance to be one of the greatest sf in the league, I'd do whTever I could to get there, all the time.  Jeff picks and chooses when he wants to be great, and then people wanna make excuses for him.  He's a vet now.  Time for him to step up or step off.

[jambr380]

[/quote]
You can't give him a personality transplant or make him a fully natural 3 with great handle and dribble-drive/passing ability. Nor will he ever have the type of body that can bruise down low. He is what the scouting report said he was, albeit with some improvement due to his work ethic. Being taken 5th overall by the great Sam Presti shouldn't hang over his career at this point.
[/quote]

Honestly, though, looking back on that 2007 draft, Green was pretty much taken exactly where he should have been.

Players that are definitely ahead of him:
Durant
Horford
Conley
M. Gasol
Noah

Players that are comparable or worse:
T. Young
Hawes
Afflalo
Landry
Splitter
M. Thornton
Stuckey
Big Baby


I like Jeff Green and think he is a great player for any team to have. He performs well and is always consistent, gives full effort on defense, and doesn't complain or get in trouble...also, he can sometimes totally take over a game. Really, the only player one could argue should have been taken over Green was Noah (Gasol was nothing at the time) and he had some pretty huge holes to his game coming out of college.

[obnoxiousmime]

Honestly, though, looking back on that 2007 draft, Green was pretty much taken exactly where he should have been.

Right,  but that actually helps prove my point. The overall quality of the draft was lower than usual but people still expect overall fifth pick performance from him. In a good draft, Dwayne Wade is a fifth pick.

Out of curiosity I looked at the fifth pick in drafts starting from 1990:

Kendall Gill, Steve Smith, LaPhonso Ellis, Isaiah Rider, Juwan Howard, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Tony Battie, Vince Carter, Jonathan Bender.

2000s:
Mike Miller, Jason Richardson, Nikoloz Tskitishvili sp?, Dwayne Wade, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Shelden Williams, Jeff Green, Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, DeMarcus Cousins, Jonas Valanciunas, Thomas Robinson, Alex Len.

Based on that list I'd say fifth picks should hit on a great player 1/4 of the time, get a solid player half the time, and get a bust/near bust 1/4 time.

I would say Green is somewhere in the upper middle of that list. Not as distinguished as Juwan Howard or Steve Smith but in the pack with Mike Miller, Devin Harris, Jason Richardson, and possibly Valanciunas.

I guess after spending all this time the conclusion was still the same: Jeff Green is neither much worse nor much better than what should have been expected.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Honestly, though, looking back on that 2007 draft, Green was pretty much taken exactly where he should have been.

Right,  but that actually helps prove my point. The overall quality of the draft was lower than usual but people still expect overall fifth pick performance from him. In a good draft, Dwayne Wade is a fifth pick.

Out of curiosity I looked at the fifth pick in drafts starting from 1990:

Kendall Gill, Steve Smith, LaPhonso Ellis, Isaiah Rider, Juwan Howard, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Tony Battie, Vince Carter, Jonathan Bender.

2000s:
Mike Miller, Jason Richardson, Nikoloz Tskitishvili sp?, Dwayne Wade, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Shelden Williams, Jeff Green, Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, DeMarcus Cousins, Jonas Valanciunas, Thomas Robinson, Alex Len.

Based on that list I'd say fifth picks should hit on a great player 1/4 of the time, get a solid player half the time, and get a bust/near bust 1/4 time.

I would say Green is somewhere in the upper middle of that list. Not as distinguished as Juwan Howard or Steve Smith but in the pack with Mike Miller, Devin Harris, Jason Richardson, and possibly Valanciunas.

I guess after spending all this time the conclusion was still the same: Jeff Green is neither much worse nor much better than what should have been expected.

OMG

This guy is just perfectly average isn't he?

COME ON JEFF



Edit:

If the guy'd just straight up bust like Michael Beasley then make a comeback, at least he'd be somewhat exciting. But his performance vs. expectations are like his on court demeanor, consistently unexciting/unexcited.

But then again, he did have the heart surgery. That kind of took a back seat with all the rebuilding Ainge has done. Doctors did say he won't ever be 100% like he was before the surgery. I guess there's still hope for massive playoff performances?

It's not unreasonable that a player doesn't go 120% every single night. Only around 10 guys in the league (IF they're healthy) can produce every single night because they're just THAT talented.

Yes, the Rondo defense. Thing is, I personally don't think Rondo doesn't go hard every night. Now that I think about it, I think the playoffs might even have pushed him to another level that he consciously can't actually reach normally (inb4 "typical delusional crazy Rondo fan  ")...

But that's for another thread...for another user. imo more people should adopt the tolerance policy in tanking and Rondo related matters, since nobody's convincing anyone of anything...

BUT back to Jeff...maybe the "he's not going all in yet" excuse works for him. For him to go hard, he has to give up his body. Right now, no-calls really seem to hurt Jeff Green, and he settles for soft finishes... Couple that with his laid back personality and complacency... Maybe in the playoffs that'll all go away? Or perhaps (better yet) he'll actually "get it"?

Might not happen? Yes.
May never happen? Also yes.
Impossible? No. Definitely no.
Improbable? Here's the thing. I don't think anybody knows, not even Green himself nor Brad Stevens nor Ainge. First time he's a full time starter at the 3. First time he's had the opportunity to be one of the top options on offense...First time he's gotten the opportunity to lead...lots of firsts. Couple that with the uncertainty of the future...

Huge conundrum with Jeff. Wait and see I guess?

#rambling...but that's the thing with talented players, especially with those underachieving. That's half the fun with the league, right?

#morerambling

[cman88]

I was hoping on a rebuilding celtics team with few scoring optioms he would become an 18-20ppg scorer

But it seems he is the same player he had always been. That's not to say he is a bad player. Hes good for 16ppg. But mb hes your 3rd-4th best player on a championship team.

[Fan from VT]

I thought this was an interesting question. Let's take a look at Jeff Green today (year 8, middle of prime) and see what rank of player he would be on each of the last 10 championship teams. And I'm talking overall, not just in the finals, where a single player can have a hot or cold streak.

12-13/11-12, Miami Heat:
Definitely behind James, Wade, Bosh. Questionable Ray Allen in 12-13. Verdict: 4th/5th.

10-11, Dallas Mavs:
Definitely behind Nowitzki, Chandler. Probably behind Marion, Terry, Kidd. Close to Butler. Verdict: T-5th.

09-10, Lakers:
Definitely behind Pau, Kobe, Bynum, Odom. Possibly behind Meta World Peace. Verdict: T-5th.

08-09, Lakers:
Definitely behind Pau, Kobe, Bynum, Odom. Verdict: 5th.

07-08, Celtics:
Definitely behind KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo. Close to Posey/House. Verdict: T-5th.

06-07, Spurs:
Definitely (far) behind Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. Ahead of Finley, Barry. Verdict: 4th.

05-06, Heat:
Definitely (far) behind Wade, Shaq. Likely behind Haslem, Mourning. About with Walker, Williams, Payton. Verdict: T-5th.

04-05, Spurs:
Definitely (far) behind Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. Behind Bowen. Verdict: 5th.

03-04, Pistons:
Definitely behind B Wallace, R Wallace, Billups. Likely behind Prince (same offense, Prince better D). About same as Hamilton, but really likely worse. Verdict: T-5th.


So really, he's probably the 4th-5th best player on a title team, unless either the team has a GREAT top 2 or a seriously good top 2 and then a bunch of Green-level guys tied for 3rd at spots 3-7 on the roster.