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Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« on: December 20, 2013, 12:58:58 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Can someone clarify some details about the Paul Pierce trade exception?   

What can we do with it? 

It's 10 million, right? 

Can you combine it with other players? 

Can you combine it with draft picks?   

How long do we have to use it?

How little and how much salary can we take back if we use it?

If we send the trade exception to a team... do they now have the trade exception?  Or is it a different trade exception?  Same deadline to use it?  New deadline to use it?

Help me understand this thing.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2013, 01:07:09 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q81

It's a little over 10 million.

It acts, essentially, as a ~10 million dollar salary stand in for trades.

It lasts for a year after the original trade was completed--so we have it until the beginning of next summer's free agency.

From the FAQ for your other questions:
Quote
Teams cannot use trade exceptions to sign free agents; they can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams. However, a team can acquire a free agent using a trade exception if he is signed by his prior team and traded in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).

Trade exceptions are not traded from one team to another. Sometimes it appears like this is happening when one team uses a trade exception to acquire salary without sending salary away, and the other team gains a trade exception in the same process because they sent away salary without receiving salary in return. However, the trade exception the first team uses and the trade exception the second team gains are two distinct exceptions.

Teams cannot combine trade exceptions with other exceptions (such as the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception or a taxpaying team's 125% plus $100,000 margin from another simultaneous trade) in order to trade for a more expensive player. For example, a taxpaying team with a $1 million trade exception cannot combine it with their $2 million player to trade for a $3 million player (see question number 86 for more information on combining exceptions).
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2013, 01:08:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
Can someone clarify some details about the Paul Pierce trade exception?   

What can we do with it? 

It's 10 million, right? 

Can you combine it with other players? 

Can you combine it with draft picks?   

How long do we have to use it?

How little and how much salary can we take back if we use it?

If we send the trade exception to a team... do they now have the trade exception?  Or is it a different trade exception?  Same deadline to use it?  New deadline to use it?

Help me understand this thing.
As far as I remember, you're allowed to use all or parts of the exception to absorb salary in single-player trades (that's a player for picks). I don't believe you can "send" the trade exception to a team, as it is strictly related to taking less salary in trade than you're sending out.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2013, 01:11:14 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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One important bit I forgot:
Quote
Teams can consume only part of a trade exception, in which case they can still use the remainder in a future trade. For example, if a team trades a $4 million player for a $2 million player, they gain a $2 million trade exception. If they later trade a draft pick for a $1 million player, they still have $1 million left over to acquire more players and complete the earlier trade (until one year from the date of the original trade).
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2013, 01:12:05 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote from: D.o.s. on December 20, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q81

It's a little over 10 million.

It acts, essentially, as a ~10 million dollar salary stand in for trades.

It lasts for a year after the original trade was completed--so we have it until the beginning of next summer's free agency.

From the FAQ for your other questions:
Quote
Teams cannot use trade exceptions to sign free agents; they can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams. However, a team can acquire a free agent using a trade exception if he is signed by his prior team and traded in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).

Trade exceptions are not traded from one team to another. Sometimes it appears like this is happening when one team uses a trade exception to acquire salary without sending salary away, and the other team gains a trade exception in the same process because they sent away salary without receiving salary in return. However, the trade exception the first team uses and the trade exception the second team gains are two distinct exceptions.

Teams cannot combine trade exceptions with other exceptions (such as the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception or a taxpaying team's 125% plus $100,000 margin from another simultaneous trade) in order to trade for a more expensive player. For example, a taxpaying team with a $1 million trade exception cannot combine it with their $2 million player to trade for a $3 million player (see question number 86 for more information on combining exceptions).
So we have a year to use it... but the salary we take back has to be less than 10 mil, right?  So... completely random examples:

Trade exception + many picks for Paul Millisap (8 mil).  That works, right?

But

Trade exception + many picks for Al Horford (12 mil) ... that doesn't work, right?
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 01:18:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The trade exception can be used to acquire a player without matching salary.

It is around $10.3 million.

You cannot combine a trade exception with another exception (trade exception, MLE, etc) or a contract.  For example, you cannot use it and Courtney Lee to bring back a player making $15m.  Since picks don't count as salary, you can combine it with picks (or structure it so that the picks are being traded for nothing).

The trade exception expires one year after the trade, which was finalized on July 12.  Since the Celtics are hard-capped due to accepting Bogans in a sign-and-trade, the Celtics are unlikely to use it before the July moratorium.  Additionally, the luxury tax is calculated based on payroll on the last day of the regular season, so the Celtics can use it after that point without running contrary to their desire to avoid the repeater luxury tax rate.

The Celtics can take back up to $10.3m in salary.  The team can also break it up into pieces and use part of it on one player, reserving the rest for later.

You don't send trade exceptions to another team.  The other team may gain a distinct trade exception as part of the deal that has the same one-year deadline from the time of the new trade.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2013, 01:20:23 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:12:05 PM
So we have a year to use it... but the salary we take back has to be less than 10 mil, right?  So... completely random examples:

Trade exception + many picks for Paul Millisap (8 mil).  That works, right?

But

Trade exception + many picks for Al Horford (12 mil) ... that doesn't work, right?

Yes.  There is nothing like 125/150%+100K margin for matching salary.  It is an exact number that you cannot go over.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 01:38:37 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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LC nailed it.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM »

Offline KamikazeK

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2013, 02:40:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote from: KamikazeK on December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
The trade exception isn't much of an asset by itself.

LIke, you could have used it in combination with two 1st rounders to bring in Asik. 
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2013, 03:01:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: KamikazeK on December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
The trade exception isn't much of an asset by itself.

LIke, you could have used it in combination with two 1st rounders to bring in Asik.

  The trade exception's a pretty good asset, especially if the team you're dealing with doesn't wantto get back salaries or if they don't like what you have to trade. For instance, if Houston can't trade Asik by the deadline you might be able to get him with the trade exception and maybe a 2nd rounder in the offseason.

  Is bringing back PP and KG part of your plan to tank next season?
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2013, 03:36:10 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote from: BballTim on December 20, 2013, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: KamikazeK on December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
The trade exception isn't much of an asset by itself.

LIke, you could have used it in combination with two 1st rounders to bring in Asik.

  The trade exception's a pretty good asset, especially if the team you're dealing with doesn't wantto get back salaries or if they don't like what you have to trade. For instance, if Houston can't trade Asik by the deadline you might be able to get him with the trade exception and maybe a 2nd rounder in the offseason.

  Is bringing back PP and KG part of your plan to tank next season?
So what you're saying is... if Boston trades Jeff Green for Asik today... and Philly is still stuck with Thad Young (who also is demanding a trade), you could trade the Pierce trade exception + a pick for Thad Young.

Also... tanking next season doesn't make sense.  There's only one 2014 Draft.   We either end up with a star through the draft or we don't.  Either way, I expect us to try our hardest to be competitive next season.  I'm sure Boston would welcome Pierce back into the fold... especially now that he's comfortable with coming off the bench.  I can imagine one scenario where Brooklyn doesn't want to keep paying an ancient over-the-hill KG for another season.  In that scenario, sending a trade-exception straight up to welcome him back to Boston as a mentor would make some sense.  WE'd have a limited window to do it, though... Kg can't be traded to Boston until July 1st and our trade exception expires July 14th.   But as we've discovered, it doesn't work since KG makes 12 mil and the exception is 10 mil.  Oh well... I'll just hope for a KG buy-out... presuming he doesn't retire first.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 03:42:15 PM by LarBrd33 »
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2013, 03:46:31 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: BballTim on December 20, 2013, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: KamikazeK on December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
The trade exception isn't much of an asset by itself.

LIke, you could have used it in combination with two 1st rounders to bring in Asik.

  The trade exception's a pretty good asset, especially if the team you're dealing with doesn't wantto get back salaries or if they don't like what you have to trade. For instance, if Houston can't trade Asik by the deadline you might be able to get him with the trade exception and maybe a 2nd rounder in the offseason.

  Is bringing back PP and KG part of your plan to tank next season?
So what you're saying is... if Boston trades Jeff Green for Asik today... and Philly is still stuck with Thad Young (who also is demanding a trade), you could trade the Pierce trade exception + a pick for Thad Young.

Also... tanking next season doesn't make sense.  There's only one 2014 Draft.   We either end up with a star through the draft or we don't.  Either way, I expect us to try our hardest to be competitive next season.  I'm sure Boston would welcome Pierce back into the fold... especially now that he's comfortable with coming off the bench.  I can imagine one scenario where Brooklyn doesn't want to keep paying an ancient over-the-hill KG for another season.  In that scenario, sending a trade-exception straight up to welcome him back to Boston as a mentor would make some sense.  WE'd have a limited window to do it, though... Kg can't be traded to Boston until July 1st and our trade exception expires July 14th.   But as we've discovered, it doesn't work since KG makes 12 mil and the exception is 10 mil.  Oh well... I'll just hope for a KG buy-out... presuming he doesn't retire first.

Hmmm....

So that would possibly leave us with a lineup of Asik/Sully/Young/Bradley/Rondo with KG/Pierce/Crawford off the bench.

That's solid, but probably not a contender.
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Re: Can we clarify the Pierce trade exception?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 03:52:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: BballTim on December 20, 2013, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: KamikazeK on December 20, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: LarBrd33 on December 20, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
ok. 

Too bad... cuz I envisioned a scenario where Brooklyn continued to struggle.  Pierce signed with us as a free agent this summer... and then we used the "Paul Pierce trade exception" to bring KG back home to Boston.

But KG makes 12 mil... so n/m.

Why on earth would we want to throw an asset away like that?

Using the trade exception to take back KG?.. Are you crazy?
The trade exception isn't much of an asset by itself.

LIke, you could have used it in combination with two 1st rounders to bring in Asik.

  The trade exception's a pretty good asset, especially if the team you're dealing with doesn't wantto get back salaries or if they don't like what you have to trade. For instance, if Houston can't trade Asik by the deadline you might be able to get him with the trade exception and maybe a 2nd rounder in the offseason.

  Is bringing back PP and KG part of your plan to tank next season?
So what you're saying is... if Boston trades Jeff Green for Asik today... and Philly is still stuck with Thad Young (who also is demanding a trade), you could trade the Pierce trade exception + a pick for Thad Young.

  Yes, assuming that Young makes less than 10.3M. Keep in mind you're adding his full salary to your payroll. Say Young's salary is the same as Lee's, if you swap Lee for Young you're not changing your cap number. If you send them the trade exception you're adding Young's salary to our current cap number. Danny doesn't want to get into luxury tax land this year, so (while he'll probably let it expire) if he's going to use it in a trade it's likely to be at the time of the draft, not during the season.

  And while there's only one 2014 draft, there will still be a draft next year, and it might have good players as well. There was only one 2003 draft, but the next draft yielded DH (arguably better than all but LeBron from the 2003 draft, and the next draft had Bogut, Bynum, Williams and Paul, which (if healthy) would probably rival LeBron/Wade/Bosh/Melo (a little worse, but not a ton). You're overhyping the 2014 draft, both in the expected level of talent and it's historical level. It's not the only draft in the next 10 years.

  But we're *still* not tanking.
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