If the Asik trade happens, are "basically" rebuilt?

[BballTim]

I think everyone is underestimating how bad our offense will be when you remove Bass and Crawford (both excellent shooters) and replace them with Rondo and Asik (both poor offensive players).  Rondo can pass the ball like a boss, but he needs someone to pass the ball too.   Bradley, Sully and Green are fine players, but I'd guess we'd need an elite scorer to really do much.  This wouldn't be a 50 win team... Could be a 41 win team though.  This year that would be enough for a high seed in the playoffs. 

It would be a really good defensive team, but you'd kinda need someone like Melo dropping 30 a night if you hoped to make any noise.

Yeah, I had this thought too.

Asik is a great defensive player, and a great rebounder.  Those are nice things.

But do you think adding him to this team makes the team better offensively?  At best it's probably break even.  This team isn't exactly great offensively as it is.


Elite defensively with a poor to mediocre offense -- sounds like the Bucks from a few years ago.

  Or the 2010-2012 Celtics, with a trip to the finals and the ecf and the 2nd round in those three years.

  It's true Rondo and Asik are worse shooters than Bass and Crawford. But there are other things to consider. Asik scores as efficiently (or better) than Bass and is a much better offensive rebounder. You'd have to consider all of those factors comparing the two.

  Likewise, Crawford's a better scorer than Rondo but isn't much of a point guard. We're near the worst in the league in turnovers, that should improve with Rondo. We're near the bottom of the league in assisted FGs, improving in that area should improve our overall fg%. Also, (as of now) Crawford's still here, so he'll get most or all of Pressey's minutes. That should improve our offense as well.

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics would still need the number 1 offensive threat.


I think a top level scoring SG should be the next target.  I am getting comfortable with Sully being the 2nd option for Rondo and Green being the third option. 



The question is, can the Celtics get that player? 





And I know the Celtics have AB.  I like AB, but as the 4th or 5th offensive option.  I would love to see him resigned to be the 3rd guard in the rotation. 



So the question: is AB, two draft picks plus whatever is left on the bench to find that SG?

[BballTim]

I think the Celtics would still need the number 1 offensive threat.


I think a top level scoring SG should be the next target.  I am getting comfortable with Sully being the 2nd option for Rondo and Green being the third option. 



The question is, can the Celtics get that player? 





And I know the Celtics have AB.  I like AB, but as the 4th or 5th offensive option.  I would love to see him resigned to be the 3rd guard in the rotation. 



So the question: is AB, two draft picks plus whatever is left on the bench to find that SG?

  We have a lot more than two draft picks to trade if we so desire.

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics would still need the number 1 offensive threat.


I think a top level scoring SG should be the next target.  I am getting comfortable with Sully being the 2nd option for Rondo and Green being the third option. 



The question is, can the Celtics get that player? 





And I know the Celtics have AB.  I like AB, but as the 4th or 5th offensive option.  I would love to see him resigned to be the 3rd guard in the rotation. 



So the question: is AB, two draft picks plus whatever is left on the bench to find that SG?

  We have a lot more than two draft picks to trade if we so desire.

I know.  I am just looking at pieces that could be in Boston next year. 

[BballTim]

Still have a massive gaping massive hole of "franchise player".  That's not Rondo.  Rondo is a 2nd or 3rd best player on a contender.

But we'd have some solid role players to surround a superstar with.. and tons of assets left to trade if/when a superstar becomes available.

  With solid players at all 5 positions it really lessens what you need from the star player you're bringing in. It's not like he's trying to carry players like Derek Fisher and Luke Walton in the starting lineup. That lineup, if healthy, should be a solid playoff team. We'd still have 8 upcoming draft picks and a solid starter to trade for that one player we'd need.

I dunno.  We would still have trade assets like you say, but our salary situation would be pretty maxed out, especially when you consider what we'll have to pay to keep Sullinger and Rondo in a couple of years.

Exchange Bradley for a player like Thompson or Beal.  Exchange Green for a player like Leonard, or maybe H. Barnes if he turns into a star.  Exchange Sullinger for Kevin Love.

One of those upgrades might be plausible.  Not sure.

  Bringing in a star is a tall order, but I don't think I've seen any rebuild plans that are close to as easy as that. Scary, but true.

[fandrew]

I think everyone is underestimating how bad our offense will be when you remove Bass and Crawford (both excellent shooters) and replace them with Rondo and Asik (both poor offensive players).  Rondo can pass the ball like a boss, but he needs someone to pass the ball too.   Bradley, Sully and Green are fine players, but I'd guess we'd need an elite scorer to really do much.  This wouldn't be a 50 win team... Could be a 41 win team though.  This year that would be enough for a high seed in the playoffs. 

It would be a really good defensive team, but you'd kinda need someone like Melo dropping 30 a night if you hoped to make any noise.

Which is why this deal confuses me so much, it doesn't really do much of anything except set us up for another deal.

Of course this entire season has confused me so it shouldn't surprise me that much I guess, just wish I knew what the plan was for this team, because right now it feels an awful lot like treading water in the middle of a terrible conference.

I don't really get what is so confusing about this deal or about this season.

This season we were supposed to be among one of the worst teams in the east. Ainge set up the team to have a lot of mismatched good role players. They were not expected to be a .500 win team. At this point in the season, we are not a .500 win team. The problem with the original plan is that half of our conference is playing obscenely poor basketball; teams that were supposed to be playoff bound teams this year are like .200 and .300 win teams. Ainge can't control that. He won't lose for the sake of losing and possibly get a top 5 pick. So the plan had to change. Instead of being sellers, he is shopping to improve the team one piece at a time. Asik provides a huge improvement defensively, and offensively at the basket he has success. We have KO to back him up if we need range at the C position for matchups, or Fav. We reduce salary somewhat, and still have plenty of assets to make another move at the deadline or this summer for either another player or draft pick in this years draft. Possibly using Asik as a trade asset.

This season isn't confusing, it is simply fluid, and constantly having to deal with a lot of player movement and team changes that happen to also affect us. We are improving, just not the way we all thought that we would be. And we might as well be fine with that because that is not going to change. Ainge loves to do the unexpected.

[Neurotic Guy]

Not rebuilt yet, but the Asik trade changes the mindset completely, IMO.  Instead of patiently waiting for all the draft picks to come to fruition, I am guessing DA is now thinking like many of the posters here -- we are legitimately one star player away.  That may sound silly since every team needs stars, but with Rondo, Sully, Green, Asik, Bradley, JC, KO, Vitor and GW -- we have a very solid supporting cast of players -- good enough to win if we get a star in tow. It doesn't need to be Durant or Lebron, but a 2nd tier star -- a big like Aldridge or maybe Horford; or a prolific scorer like Harden, George or Curry.   

I don't think we get anyone named here (not now anyway), but I think as time goes on and teams reassess their own situations, Danny sits on a variety of tempting packages with multiple valued players and #1 picks.   DA is in WAY better position to make 'offers that teams can't refuse' than he was in 2007 after the Ray Allen deal.

I was psyched to wait out the Nets picks (2016-18), but now it looks like at least 2 (and maybe the 2017 swap)would need to be gone to get that star.

[ssspence]

god no.

team's mediocre with or without Asik. but i like the move if it's a pick in the 20s next year.

[Edgar]

Still have a massive gaping massive hole of "franchise player".

Thinking about that lineup with Melo there instead of Sully ...

With Rondo pushing the ball and Melo and J.Green at the forward positions in an uptempo spaced offense, with Asik controlling the boards and protecting the basket helping Boston control the pace, along with the perimeter defense 1 through 4 ... that team would be awful difficult to contend with.

yup

I think J Green and Melo are part of the same deal so I will not put them together but with Melo, were back up there on tittle contention


Rondo    J Craw
Bradley   J Craw Brooks
Melo     a sock
Sully     KO
Asik      Faverani

ECF at least.

[BballTim]

Not rebuilt yet, but the Asik trade changes the mindset completely, IMO.  Instead of patiently waiting for all the draft picks to come to fruition, I am guessing DA is now thinking like many of the posters here -- we are legitimately one star player away.

  I don't think patiently waiting for all the draft picks to come to fruition was ever Danny's first plan.

[CoachBo]

I think the Celtics would still need the number 1 offensive threat.


I think a top level scoring SG should be the next target.  I am getting comfortable with Sully being the 2nd option for Rondo and Green being the third option. 



The question is, can the Celtics get that player? 





And I know the Celtics have AB.  I like AB, but as the 4th or 5th offensive option.  I would love to see him resigned to be the 3rd guard in the rotation. 



So the question: is AB, two draft picks plus whatever is left on the bench to find that SG?

It's very situational, and could also include the big contracts we seek to unload.

This one is shaping up - if the deal goes down - as one of the more unique and quick rebuilds I've seen in the association.

I'm not as worried about the offense as some - if this team with Asik is as good defensively as I suspect it might be, you will create enough offense to be around 45 wins this year, maybe more. It has always been my approach on the bench to build defense first; if you can protect the rim, rebound and run the points will come.

But that's respectability. To challenge for any sort of a title, a lockdown scorer is an absolute requirement.

[Monkhouse]

Does anyone really think there is a possibility we can get Melo? I seriously doubt it. It seems like the Knicks are content on building around Melo, despite it hasn't been effective at all, plus they seem dead set on entering playoffs despite how ineffective that has become for them.

What does anyone think about Aaron Affalo? With us moving Courtney Lee, and possibly trading Bradley and maybe someone else for Affalo, I can see him being a good scoring SG/SF. Plus with Rondo feeding him accurate passes I can see him raising his PPG to at least 2-3 extra. If he can average 23.0 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.0 APG I can see him being an above average star for us.

Rondo
Affalo
Green or maybe Melo
Sullinger
Asik

Good amount of defense and offense, definitely top 3-4 team in the weakened East.

EDIT: Affalo is currently averaging 21.6 4.8 RPG and 4.0 APG in 37.6 minutes in the Southwest Division which has Hawks and Heat in their division, along with Wizards who have been stepping their game up as of late. So we'll see. I'd like us to acquire him, I would rather not get rid of Bradley. If we can trade someone else, or if Orlando wants another draft pick and expiring contracts in return, I'm all for it.

[Jailan34]

Does anyone really think there is a possibility we can get Melo? I seriously doubt it. It seems like the Knicks are content on building around Melo, despite it hasn't been effective at all, plus they seem dead set on entering playoffs despite how ineffective that has become for them.

What does anyone think about Aaron Affalo? With us moving Courtney Lee, and possibly trading Bradley and maybe someone else for Affalo, I can see him being a good scoring SG/SF. Plus with Rondo feeding him accurate passes I can see him raising his PPG to at least 2-3 extra. If he can average 23.0 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.0 APG I can see him being an above average star for us.

Rondo
Affalo
Green or maybe Melo
Sullinger
Asik

Good amount of defense and offense, definitely top 3-4 team in the weakened East.

EDIT: Affalo is currently averaging 21.6 4.8 RPG and 4.0 APG in 37.6 minutes in the Southwest Division which has Hawks and Heat in their division, along with Wizards who have been stepping their game up as of late. So we'll see. I'd like us to acquire him, I would rather not get rid of Bradley. If we can trade someone else, or if Orlando wants another draft pick and expiring contracts in return, I'm all for it.

Orlando is pretty high on Affalo for obvious reasons. I think it'd take at bare minimum bradley and our own 1st for him.

[hpantazo]

I don't get this attachment to Bradley. He's a mediocre offensive player and his "elite" defense on e again failed to stop the opponents best guard in crunch time last night when Jennings torched him. He's a good hustle player and pressures the ball well, that's about it. He's not a legit starter or even 6h man on a contender.

[CoachBo]

I don't get this attachment to Bradley. He's a mediocre offensive player and his "elite" defense on e again failed to stop the opponents best guard in crunch time last night when Jennings torched him. He's a good hustle player and pressures the ball well, that's about it. He's not a legit starter or even 6h man on a contender.

Agreed entirely. He is not a starter at the 2 on a championship contender and is another of Ainge's chronically overrated draft picks on this board - sort of the Perkins of the 2.

I would easily envision making him available - especially given his prospective contract numbers - in any deal for a reliable scorer at the 2.