Are we too Good to be Bad but too Bad to get anywhere?

[vjcsmoke]

This is the bizarre situation we find ourselves in.  Although the Celtics are 10-14, they find themselves in 1st place of the Atlantic division.  In fact they are on pace to finish well below .500 and still win the Atlantic.

It is apparent that every other team in the division sucks to a significant degree.  I mean we blew out the Knicks by 41 points, but face it, we ain't THAT good.  It's just the Knicks are THAT BAD!

So is this real life?  The Celtics could win only 34 games (at their current win percentage of .417) but still win the Division.  Would this place us out of the lottery since we'd be a playoff team by default?  Crazy but it just might happen.  And of course that would mean we'd be knocked off in the 1st round because we'd be playing well above our heads.

NO lotto pick, bad record, but not bad enough.  Stuck in NO MAN's LAND.  Nightmare.  Someone tell me this isn't the scenario.  But it sure looks like it.

[pokeKingCurtis]

This would be the worst...

IF YOU HAVE NO YOUNG ASSETS AND HAVE NO FLEXIBILITY IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM AND ARE COMPLETELY INVESTED IN WINNING.

See: Hawks of the past few years. Maybe the Knicks this year (we'll see what happens when Tyson Chandler comes back, but JR Smith seems to be sucking hard) and definitely in the coming few years (if and probably when Melo leaves, they have zero picks with Tyson Chandler and Shumpert being the only players worth anything). The Bucks in the past few years.



THOSE teams were/are in a bind.

This team has more firsts than anyone, expirings upcoming. A team with an average age of 25.7, INCLUDING the likes of Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

WHY is this team mediocre? Because Bass is having himself a career year, playing up his trade value. Because SULLY is becoming a better basketball player. Because J-Craw and AB are becoming better basketball players, playing up his value for the team and/or trade value. Because Kris Humphries and EVEN GERALD **** WALLACE are playing up their value.

This team is not mediocre because it spent a lot (of picks and cap space) on a star that won't carry the team. This team did not overpay 30+ year old role players to stay on the mediocrity treadmill. This team did not overpay only to under-perform. This team did not invest a lot only to undershoot expectations.




WOW WE'RE SCREWED, THE SKY IS FALLING.......is NOT us.

If we want to tank, we could easily, EASILY trade away everyone on the roster. We're not tied up at all.

Ainge hasn't made a move yet. If he DOESN'T wanna tank, then it's his CHOICE.

So those getting mad about not tanking and FREAKING OUT about winning have Ainge to blame.

We have a BLANK SLATE.




Not to mention Brad Stevens is lookin' sharp.






Ultimately, we come full circle back to the same old, FRUITLESS discussion of tank/don't tank. It's like American politics. Tank/don't tank, Democrat/Republican. Nobody can convince anyone of anything. Name calling, diatribes, BS.

I can't say Ainge has decided on whether or not to tank yet since it's not the trade deadline, but even if he doesn't, there's a lot of flexibility. So if you're by any chance undecided on whether you're going Democrat or Republican pro-tanking or not, there's that.

Though you're probably pro-tanking from the looks of it.

[wdleehi]

Eventually, I think the Nets or Knicks are going to get healthy and catch the Celtics.





But if they don't, and the Celtics win the Atlantic with the poor winning % they now have, it is a terrible year for the Celtics future.



The only win is extra ticket sales in the playoffs. 




And this isn't pro-tanking.


The Celtics are not a good team right now.  Being on pace to win 34 games means a team needs to add talent. 



Of course right now in the east, winning 40% of your games seems to be the magic number to make the playoffs. 







The Celtics are bad enough to be bad.


The problem is the East is worst. 

[playdream]

Ainge need to trade some players away to get us into the lottery
the losses against Nets/Clipper are helping

[TwinTower14]

really tough schedule coming up but I agree I would like to see Ainge start moving some pieces.  I bet they sell high on Crawford at some point.  And I could see Bass or Lee going to a Western Conference contending team by the dead-line....Steven's is so good he keeps them in every game even with subpar talent....

[celtics2]

yes, not losing to badly now. team has settled down and will get better. has shown signs. have some players with potential and a good Coach who understands match ups. assistants give him the #'s, he works the numbers.

[BleedGreen1989]

Probably somewhere in between, yeah.

Brad Stevens has this team playing above their talent level (just like Butler).

I have a different question. If Danny had hired a terrible coach and we were 3-18 with obvious coaching miscues, would anybody be any happier?

[wdleehi]

Probably somewhere in between, yeah.

Brad Stevens has this team playing above their talent level (just like Butler).

I have a different question. If Danny had hired a terrible coach and we were 3-18 with obvious coaching miscues, would anybody be any happier?

No.



I am not unhappy that the Celtics are winning to much.  They aren't.




I am unhappy that the rest of the East is such garbage.

[Clench123]

We can't be in the middle.  That will be detrimental for a very long time.  Reality is we're not good enough to even sniff anything past the first round if that.  Danny should act and trade some guys away for scraps because it can't be like this. 

[Jailan34]

That's exactly where we are OP. Also, we currently have only one high value trade asset, which is Rondo. Everything else is mediocre and wouldn't bring much back in a trade. It's a tough spot. Danny will have to rely on a trade to get this team some premium talent and I don't believe he has enough chips to make a big deal.

[Donoghus]

It's seemingly the case right now although plenty of the season to be played.

The good news is that the team has plenty of assets to work around.  I'd be shocked if the roster in April is the same as it is now.  If the Celtics go on a real swoon, I could definitely see guys moved.  Maybe even if they don't.

[LooseCannon]

NO lotto pick, bad record, but not bad enough.  Stuck in NO MAN's LAND.  Nightmare.  Someone tell me this isn't the scenario.  But it sure looks like it.

The Celtics are not stuck in no man's land.  They have a lot of young players with upside and a ton of draft picks.  Being stuck on what has been called the treadmill of mediocrity means you are a middle team that is locked into a core that is unlikely to improve yet hard to trade, with no cap flexibility to sign a free agent.

If the Celtics are a middle-of-the-pack team this season, there is no reason to believe that guarantees the team will be in the same range next season because Ainge has the flexibility to make many different moves.

[moiso]

Probably somewhere in between, yeah.

Brad Stevens has this team playing above their talent level (just like Butler).

I have a different question. If Danny had hired a terrible coach and we were 3-18 with obvious coaching miscues, would anybody be any happier?

Absolutely, if not too much $ or years were invested in the terrible coach.  Glad to have Stevens going forward though.

[yoursweatersux]

This would be the worst...

IF YOU HAVE NO YOUNG ASSETS AND HAVE NO FLEXIBILITY IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM AND ARE COMPLETELY INVESTED IN WINNING.

See: Hawks of the past few years. Maybe the Knicks this year (we'll see what happens when Tyson Chandler comes back, but JR Smith seems to be sucking hard) and definitely in the coming few years (if and probably when Melo leaves, they have zero picks with Tyson Chandler and Shumpert being the only players worth anything). The Bucks in the past few years.



THOSE teams were/are in a bind.

This team has more firsts than anyone, expirings upcoming. A team with an average age of 25.7, INCLUDING the likes of Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

WHY is this team mediocre? Because Bass is having himself a career year, playing up his trade value. Because SULLY is becoming a better basketball player. Because J-Craw and AB are becoming better basketball players, playing up his value for the team and/or trade value. Because Kris Humphries and EVEN GERALD **** WALLACE are playing up their value.

This team is not mediocre because it spent a lot (of picks and cap space) on a star that won't carry the team. This team did not overpay 30+ year old role players to stay on the mediocrity treadmill. This team did not overpay only to under-perform. This team did not invest a lot only to undershoot expectations.




WOW WE'RE SCREWED, THE SKY IS FALLING.......is NOT us.

If we want to tank, we could easily, EASILY trade away everyone on the roster. We're not tied up at all.

Ainge hasn't made a move yet. If he DOESN'T wanna tank, then it's his CHOICE.

So those getting mad about not tanking and FREAKING OUT about winning have Ainge to blame.

We have a BLANK SLATE.




Not to mention Brad Stevens is lookin' sharp.






Ultimately, we come full circle back to the same old, FRUITLESS discussion of tank/don't tank. It's like American politics. Tank/don't tank, Democrat/Republican. Nobody can convince anyone of anything. Name calling, diatribes, BS.

I can't say Ainge has decided on whether or not to tank yet since it's not the trade deadline, but even if he doesn't, there's a lot of flexibility. So if you're by any chance undecided on whether you're going Democrat or Republican pro-tanking or not, there's that.

Though you're probably pro-tanking from the looks of it.

TP for this.

[D.o.s.]

NO lotto pick, bad record, but not bad enough.  Stuck in NO MAN's LAND.  Nightmare.  Someone tell me this isn't the scenario.  But it sure looks like it.

The Celtics are not stuck in no man's land.  They have a lot of young players with upside and a ton of draft picks.  Being stuck on what has been called the treadmill of mediocrity means you are a middle team that is locked into a core that is unlikely to improve yet hard to trade, with no cap flexibility to sign a free agent.

If the Celtics are a middle-of-the-pack team this season, there is no reason to believe that guarantees the team will be in the same range next season because Ainge has the flexibility to make many different moves.

Right.