If rondo comesback and we start losing

[Tr1boy]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

Nobody knows what is going to happen. But what we know is this team is functioning on both ends now. Late game blunders and turnovers are down. Rondo has to help keep this up or help the team excel further. The pressure is greatest on him imo.

Ainge imo will likely not trade rondo this year. And if he cant help the team excel further, will prob sign jcraw to a decent deal (cheaper vs rondos) and look to trade rondo by draft night etc.

[Donoghus]

Forgot to add a 4th reason why we might start losing when Rondo comes back;  selling off talent which weakens the roster.

[Celtics18]

Maybe I am looking through green colored glasses here, but this is something I have felt for a long time...long before the changes of this past summer.  I think Rondo was held back a lot by Doc and Pierce.  I think Pierce and Doc (KG less so) had a lot of trouble letting Rondo take the lead, and it led to a real power struggle which killed the chemistry of the team, and led to Rondo underperforming.

I really believe that, if Rondo can come back fully healthy, he will thrive on this team.  I just think that the leadership dynamics are so much better now, and he that it is truly his team.  Stevens seems to be much more willing to share the leadership, and is not as threatened by it than Doc and Pierce, and I really think they will work well together.

I have long felt this way as well.  I think this team has been built with Rondo in mind.  And, I am hopeful that it will yield nice results when he returns. 

To really go crazy with the green lenses, I think that Klynyk is going to fit like a glove next to Rondo.  I can see Rondo's return coinciding with Kelly starting to find his NBA sea legs, and those two starting to look like a really positive guard/big combo for the future. 

[CelticG1]

Be honest does anyone want to see the Celtics do worse with Rondo just to fit their narrative?

I know people watch him like a hawk with every step he takes, every pass, shot, miss, loss etc etc. Any ammo to bring him down. We are a below 500 team now and probably a lot worse than our record but if we continue to lose with Rondo I'd have to imagine some people would be a little bit giddy about it

[Donoghus]

Be honest does anyone want to see the Celtics do worse with Rondo just to fit their narrative?

I know people watch him like a hawk with every step he takes, every pass, shot, miss, loss etc etc. Any ammo to bring him down. We are a below 500 team now and probably a lot worse than our record but if we continue to lose with Rondo I'd have to imagine some people would be a little bit giddy about it

Oh yeah, there's definitely some people here that would. 

Just like there's plenty of people who deify the guy and think he can do no wrong and will chase you done if they think you spite him.

[BballTim]

i honestly dont care how rondo plays in the regular season, he gives so much effort in the playoffs that he makes up for it. he obviously saves himself physically for the playoffs. if you want him to waste his 160 lb body in the regular season, well thats just not logical.

lol...


and if the team doesn't make the playoffs?

Btw, I don't buy the "playoff superstar" theory.  He just gets more minutes.

  He dominates playoff games and playoff series. And, fyi, it's not unusual for players to get more minutes in the playoffs than the regular season. Over the last 5 seasons combined, 5 players averaged 38+ mpg during the regular season, 27 have during the playoffs. 21 players averaged more mpg in those 5 combined playoffs than any player did during those combined regular seasons.

 If your explanation of the "playoff superstar theory" was correct the theory wouldn't exist. Most (if not all) stars play more minutes during the playoffs, yet you don't hear that they're "playoff superstars". That's because they don't step up their games in the postseason like Rondo does.

He also has crappy games all the time in the playoffs.  He also has dominate regular season games and stretches as well.  Rondo is virtually the same player in the playoffs as he is in the regular season (look at his per 36 for both).  He plays more minutes and takes 2 more shots per 36 and bumps his rebounding about 0.5 per 36, but is less efficient and decreases his assists per 36 by 0.5 per 36. In other words, for all practical purposes Rondo is the same player in the regular season as he is in the post season he is just slightly more inclined to shoot more and pass less in the post season.  I would actually prefer that Rondo all the time as he does look to pass to much at times.  He also has bad games all the time because he can't play at that top level consistently enough.  His career, both post season and regular season equates almost evenly between great games, good games, and bad games.  They are pretty much 1 in 3 across the board.  He needs to up the great games and good games and decrease the bad games to really become the player he could become.

  He doesn't have very many crappy games in the playoffs when he's healthy. He doesn't always have great scoring games but he doesn't have to score a ton to control a game. Also, as I've mentioned in the past, having a player's scoring go up even as much as Rondo's in the playoffs is unusual. The defenses are generally better as you see few if any of the bottom 10-12 defenses in the league in the postseason. The Celts play the majority of their playoff games against top 7 defenses, for example.

  The last time this discussion came up I checked the top 25 or so active playoff scorers who had played a decent amount of playoff games. The only player who's per36 scoring average jumped as much as Rondo's was TMac, and that only happened because he had injury-plagued seasons where he didn't score much and missed the playoffs. The bulk of those players scored *less* per36 in the playoffs.

sure, but they also shoot less by and large, not increase their shot output by 2 a game.  Rondo scores more in the playoffs because he shoots more, not because he increased his effectiveness.  His shooting more means he gets less assists though and he basically contributes the same amount of points per game (assists and points) in both the playoffs and regular season on a per minute basis.

  Again, I don't think you realize the difference between regular season and playoff basketball. First of all, there are less assists in general in the playoffs. In the 2013 playoffs the league average was about 18.6 assists/game. During the 2013 regular season every team in the league averaged more than 19 apg and the league average was over 22. Rondo's assists/36 drop by .5 between the regular season and the playoffs, if he held to league average his assists would drop by about 1.6. So, again, Rondo "steps up" compared to the rest of the league.

  As for the number of shot attempts, notice that eFG% and TS% both drop during the playoffs (stronger defenses). I would be somewhat surprised if your claim (they take fewer shots) is really true. But if you're confident that it is, what does that mean? If they're maintaining their efficiency as you say, then their scoring efficiency compared to the league as a whole is improving. But the fewer shots means that their overall role in the offense (things like usage) is probably decreasing. Their team's overall decrease in efficiency means that their teammates are having to shoulder more of the load in the playoffs while those stars do less.

[Evantime34]

If Rondo comes back and we start losing it will be because we are playing stiffer competition, since even with Rondo this team isn't extremely talented.

[PhoSita]

Rondo isn't going to be 100% until sometime next season.  That's just how these injuries work.  So it would be foolish to draw any major conclusions if the team struggles when he returns.

It's going to be an adjustment for everybody on the team when Rondo comes back.  I don't expect the transition to be completely smooth.  Rondo is unlike any player currently in the rotation and the offense will have to change when he comes back.

[BballTim]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

  The team's near the bottom of the league in assists and near the top of the league in turnovers. I don't think the offense is running as smoothly under Crawford as you think it is.

[PhoSita]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

  The team's near the bottom of the league in assists and near the top of the league in turnovers. I don't think the offense is running as smoothly under Crawford as you think it is.

Certainly it's not a "smooth" offense under Crawford.  The Celtics are 23rd in offensive efficiency.  Though the team's offensive rating is a lot lower when Crawford isn't on the floor than when he is.

The floor spacing will not be as good with Rondo running the point instead, however.  Doesn't mean the offense won't run better, but it will be different.

[Celtics18]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

  The team's near the bottom of the league in assists and near the top of the league in turnovers. I don't think the offense is running as smoothly under Crawford as you think it is.

Certainly it's not a "smooth" offense under Crawford.  The Celtics are 23rd in offensive efficiency.  Though the team's offensive rating is a lot lower when Crawford isn't on the floor than when he is.

The floor spacing will not be as good with Rondo running the point instead, however.  Doesn't mean the offense won't run better, but it will be different.

I think the floor spacing will improve.  What do defenses do against Rondo?  They try to pack the lane, as defenses do against all players who are great at getting in the lane and breaking down a defense.

When defenses are really digging into the paint, it will open up more space for shooters on the perimeter.  And, we know that Rondo will find those open shooters. 

That's how floor spacing works.  You won't be successful in the NBA just putting 5 long range shooters out there if none of them can create plays off the dribble.  Not saying that Jordan can't create off the dribble, but despite how well he's done this season, I'm not ready to put him on Rondo's level in that category. 

[PhoSita]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

  The team's near the bottom of the league in assists and near the top of the league in turnovers. I don't think the offense is running as smoothly under Crawford as you think it is.

Certainly it's not a "smooth" offense under Crawford.  The Celtics are 23rd in offensive efficiency.  Though the team's offensive rating is a lot lower when Crawford isn't on the floor than when he is.

The floor spacing will not be as good with Rondo running the point instead, however.  Doesn't mean the offense won't run better, but it will be different.

I think the floor spacing will improve.  What do defenses do against Rondo?  They try to pack the lane, as defenses do against all players who are great at getting in the lane and breaking down a defense.

When defenses are really digging into the paint, it will open up more space for shooters on the perimeter.  And, we know that Rondo will find those open shooters. 

That's how floor spacing works.  You won't be successful in the NBA just putting 5 long range shooters out there if none of them can create plays off the dribble.  Not saying that Jordan can't create off the dribble, but despite how well he's done this season, I'm not ready to put him on Rondo's level in that category.

I guess we'll see.

[Tr1boy]

Rondo isn't going to be 100% until sometime next season.  That's just how these injuries work.  So it would be foolish to draw any major conclusions if the team struggles when he returns.

It's going to be an adjustment for everybody on the team when Rondo comes back.  I don't expect the transition to be completely smooth.  Rondo is unlike any player currently in the rotation and the offense will have to change when he comes back.

Why does 4 other guys have to change for 1 player?

Rondo standing on top of the key while other guys run around the floor like headless chickens is a detriment imo.

If rondo works with the team and goes back to drive and dishing to the open man then we will be better than now(in theory)

[BballTim]

With this teams makeup jcraws ability to score and shoot threes at the point might be a better fit than rondos ability to pass. The team passing is pretty good and with rondo on the floor it might end up suffering.

  The team's near the bottom of the league in assists and near the top of the league in turnovers. I don't think the offense is running as smoothly under Crawford as you think it is.

Certainly it's not a "smooth" offense under Crawford.  The Celtics are 23rd in offensive efficiency.  Though the team's offensive rating is a lot lower when Crawford isn't on the floor than when he is.

The floor spacing will not be as good with Rondo running the point instead, however.  Doesn't mean the offense won't run better, but it will be different.

  The difference in spacing is Rondo's man though. That would make more of a difference if Rondo was playing off the ball a lot.

[playdream]

Rondo isn't going to be 100% until sometime next season.  That's just how these injuries work.  So it would be foolish to draw any major conclusions if the team struggles when he returns.

It's going to be an adjustment for everybody on the team when Rondo comes back.  I don't expect the transition to be completely smooth.  Rondo is unlike any player currently in the rotation and the offense will have to change when he comes back.

Why does 4 other guys have to change for 1 player?

Rondo standing on top of the key while other guys run around the floor like headless chickens is a detriment imo.

If rondo works with the team and goes back to drive and dishing to the open man then we will be better than now(in theory)

yeah it should be Rondo who adjust to the team, not everybody on the team adjust to Rondo, it won't work