Could not be more proud of this team

[winsomme]

I guess the question is what is the goal...

I don't happen to see how we turn this into a contender with our current assets (and I am including the picks we have via trade). That's why I have been hoping for a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft.

As far as watching this team play, yeah they have been fun to watch. But they are a sub 500 team. I mean let's be real here.

I kinda feel like I am watching that Philly team from a few years ago with Iggy, Thad, LouWill, Holiday, etc where they were fun but no where near a championship level and not great avenues to get better...

I'm open to another way forward (ie not tanking) but when I read posts like these I get this feeling that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I still can't stomach the idea of rooting for a sub .500 playoff team.  That just makes me really uncomfortable.  But if Stevens gets this team to .500... I'm all-in on winning.  I thought Celtic pride and our winning culture would effectively die once KG was traded.  I was on board with the long-view of that trade, but figured it would take several years until we regained that winning mentality.   If things continue on this trend, I'll be proven very wrong... which is a good thing.  Brad Stevens looks like he can coach... and if he can get this group of youngins and mediocre vets to .500, it will probably mean good things for Boston.   When Doc, KG, Ray and Paul were here... Boston was a premiere franchise and an intriguing destination for players around the league.   If Stevens can get these guys to massively overachieve (above .500 and the playoffs), our assets become far more valuable, our credibility around the league increases... and anytime a disgruntled all-star wants out, they'll have to look towards Boston and it's boatload of assets.  I love watching this team.  These guys are growing on me more and more each game.   

Wow, LB I just almost fell out of my chair reading this lol. Welcome aboard.

Jokes aside, you bring up some good points. If we suck and bottom out, our players are likely worthless in a trade. However, if they play well and can perform on the big stage in the playoffs, they should greatly increase their trade value.

Well Big Al netted us KG after a 24 win season with a what was it 17 game losing streak...Personally, I'd rather have the pick

Well sure, in a vacuum. If Stern wanted to give us a top 3 pick I'd be very happy. However, that situation is likely a dream at this point with this roster.

There's lots of things I'd like but have no real way of getting them.

It's not a vacuum though. Danny could easily rework this roster. Bass,Hump,Lee could be moved to contenders looking to add veteran players...Plus, remember we got like the WORST possible pick that year and still made it work. our plan A that year was Durant...

[PhoSita]

This team has shown some fight.  I like some of the players on this team.

That said, I really think the better than expected record has more to do with how weak the league is outside of the top 8-10 teams.  A team has to be truly, truly terrible through the first part of this season in order to "tank."

That's one way to look at it.  I must point at, though, that during the off-season, and the early part of the season, many of you were absolutely convinced that our Celtics couldn't possibly be anything but one of the five worst teams in the league.

At the time, some of us (me) tried to point out that one of the primary reasons for thinking this team could compete for a playoff berth was exactly because there were a lot of other teams in the league that didn't look like they'd be particularly imposing as challengers by comparison to the Celtics. 

Of course, I was mostly derided, scoffed at, or just completely ignored for suggesting such anti-Wiggins or Parker heresy. 

Now that the Celtics look like they may be in a better position relative to everybody else than most of you thought was possible, it turns out that no one could have foreseen that this team may be able to compete for a playoff berth?

The truth is that those of us (me) who were paying a little attention could have foreseen it . . . and did.

I still don't believe this team will make the playoffs.

You should get credit, though, for thinking the team would be better than abysmal.  You were right.


That said, though, so far the only record that really means much to me is the team's record against good teams.  I don't really care much how good the Celtics are relative to the other mediocre teams.

So far, the Celtics have played 8 or 9 games against good teams -- depending on your opinion of the Nuggets sans Gallinari and McGee -- and other than the Nuggets game, they've managed to win one of those games, on a miraculous last-second shot.  In the other games -- against Memphis, Indiana, San Antonio, Houston, Minnesota, etc -- they weren't really competitive.


This team is still nowhere close to really competing against the best teams in the league, in my opinion.  I think that'll be true even once Rondo returns.  It just turns out the middle and bottom of the league are even weaker than I had expected.

But you're right -- if part of your initial prediction was based on the league being so weak outside of the top 10, you deserve credit for recognizing that.

[nickagneta]

I don't happen to see how we turn this into a contender with our current assets (and I am including the picks we have via trade).

Can you see air? Does not mean it does not exist. Just because you can not see how it can happen doesn't mean there isn't a really good chance it does.

Rondo could come back and be even better with an uptempo pace and a better shot. Bradley is developing into a heck of a shooter and is already a perimeter defensive gem. Sully will be a double double guy real soon and a tough interior defender. Faverani has Tiago Splitter type ceiling. Jeff Green might just become consistent. and the picks we get could be all lottery picks from the Nets.

That could add up to a title contender in four to 5 years. And BTW, we could be getting that superduperstar in 2016 or 2017 or 2018, just not 2014.

[Boris Badenov]

Egad. This discussion just triggered a mental image of what will happen on this board if we end up playing worse after Rondo returns.

I really, really hope that doesn't happen.

[gpap]

Great post. I also am very proud of this team.

I love the competitive spirit, the energy and the hustle.

I love it even more when we beat good teams like Miami, Denver, Atlanta and Utah (just kidding on the last one.)

I am always superstitious and leary of posting something positive about the team, because then I worry they are going to loss like they are next 10 games in a row.

But regardless, what I like the most is this team "gets it."

They are professionals who get paid to a job and play and there's pride involved in that.

They also realize that inentionally losing games is a crock of you know what.

For those overanlayzing the situation and pulling off a Gary Tanguay saying "oh, I don't want to see us be a subpar 500 average playoff team"...just breathe and appreciate the team for what they are doing.

[PhoSita]

Egad. This discussion just triggered a mental image of what will happen on this board if we end up playing worse after Rondo returns.

I really, really hope that doesn't happen.

A lot of already "fun" debates will get even more "enthusiastic."

[indeedproceed]

Egad. This discussion just triggered a mental image of what will happen on this board if we end up playing worse after Rondo returns.

I really, really hope that doesn't happen.

A lot of already "fun" debates will get even more "enthusiastic."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UplJBQi_0_w

[PhoSita]

As far as watching this team play, yeah they have been fun to watch. But they are a sub 500 team. I mean let's be real here.

I kinda feel like I am watching that Philly team from a few years ago with Iggy, Thad, LouWill, Holiday, etc where they were fun but no where near a championship level and not great avenues to get better...

I'm open to another way forward (ie not tanking) but when I read posts like these I get this feeling that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I think that comparison will be especially apt once Rondo returns.  The talent level and prospects for future improvement seem comparable, to me, although Ainge does have more 1st round picks to use in the coming years.


I have also gotten that feeling about "cutting off the nose to spite the face."  When people celebrate that our team is 9-12 and sitting at the top of the division, I think part of it is just delight at the idea that the "tankers" aren't getting their way, because some people are offended by the idea that any part of the Celtics organization would actually value losing over winning.

There has been a LOT of debate around here about what is best for the future of the team -- winning 35-40 games and perhaps scraping into the playoffs, or really bottoming out and getting a top pick.

I get the sense, though, that for some people, even if it were true that getting the high lottery pick were better for the future of the team, they'd still prefer to see this team make the playoffs with 35 wins, for the sake of principle and being able to cheer on the players already in uniform (the guys who are already 'part of the family').

[BballTim]

As far as watching this team play, yeah they have been fun to watch. But they are a sub 500 team. I mean let's be real here.

I kinda feel like I am watching that Philly team from a few years ago with Iggy, Thad, LouWill, Holiday, etc where they were fun but no where near a championship level and not great avenues to get better...

I'm open to another way forward (ie not tanking) but when I read posts like these I get this feeling that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I think that comparison will be especially apt once Rondo returns.  The talent level and prospects for future improvement seem comparable, to me, although Ainge does have more 1st round picks to use in the coming years.


I have also gotten that feeling about "cutting off the nose to spite the face."  When people celebrate that our team is 9-12 and sitting at the top of the division, I think part of it is just delight at the idea that the "tankers" aren't getting their way, because some people are offended by the idea that any part of the Celtics organization would actually value losing over winning.

There has been a LOT of debate around here about what is best for the future of the team -- winning 35-40 games and perhaps scraping into the playoffs, or really bottoming out and getting a top pick.

I get the sense, though, that for some people, even if it were true that getting the high lottery pick were better for the future of the team, they'd still prefer to see this team make the playoffs with 35 wins, for the sake of principle and being able to cheer on the players already in uniform (the guys who are already 'part of the family').

  The bulk of the debate was about whether we should deliberately worsen our team in order to bottom out and start over. I think another way of characterizing what's happening is the pro-tankers are bemoaning their being (at least somewhat) wrong about how bad the team was and about whether the Celts were overtly trying to bottom out for a bad draft pick.

[PhoSita]

  The bulk of the debate was about whether we should deliberately worsen our team in order to bottom out and start over. I think another way of characterizing what's happening is the pro-tankers are bemoaning their being (at least somewhat) wrong about how bad the team was and about whether the Celts were overtly trying to bottom out for a bad draft pick.

I think that's mostly right.

I still think that's what Ainge was (and is) aiming to do, but Ainge has also shown that he doesn't believe in just giving away assets, even minor ones.  That's why it took him so long to pull the trigger on trading Pierce and Garnett.  The only player that Danny probably couldn't trade if he wanted to is Gerald Wallace.

Anyways -- I am a "tanker," I suppose, and for my part I'm not bemoaning that the team is not as bad as I thought it would be.  I've been pleasantly surprised, particularly by Crawford and Sullinger, since I think they both could have a future here.

I do openly regret, however, that the league is so top heavy that the Celtics, despite being so far away from having the pieces to compete with the best in the league, are still good enough in such a weak division and conference to get out of the running for a really valuable pick in the upcoming draft.  I just don't see what there is to celebrate about that.

[nickagneta]

  I just don't see what there is to celebrate about that.

How about that the Nets are so bad and destined to be so bad for years that we will be getting that awesome high draft pick not this year but in another which would catapult this team into instant contender rather than get it this year with a pathetic team so we could be catapulted straight into the lottery for another 2-3 years?

[PhoSita]

  I just don't see what there is to celebrate about that.

How about that the Nets are so bad and destined to be so bad for years that we will be getting that awesome high draft pick not this year but in another which would catapult this team into instant contender rather than get it this year with a pathetic team so we could be catapulted straight into the lottery for another 2-3 years?

Two things:

1. The above could be true even if the Celtics were also getting a high lottery pick this season, so it doesn't really have any bearing on how I feel about how the Celtics are doing.  Also, there's reason to believe that a high pick this year will be much better than a high pick in most drafts.

2. The Nets have no incentive to be bad over the next few years, they have an owner with tons of money and a burning desire to win at all costs, and they will still have some solid talent in place moving forward to at least be an average team (i.e. Deron, Lopez, Joe Johnson). 

Considering all of those factors, I'd be surprised if any of those picks end up being really high.  I certainly hope I'm wrong, though!

[BudweiserCeltic]

  I just don't see what there is to celebrate about that.

How about that the Nets are so bad and destined to be so bad for years that we will be getting that awesome high draft pick not this year but in another which would catapult this team into instant contender rather than get it this year with a pathetic team so we could be catapulted straight into the lottery for another 2-3 years?

Two things:

1. The above could be true even if the Celtics were also getting a high lottery pick this season, so it doesn't really have any bearing on how I feel about how the Celtics are doing.  Also, there's reason to believe that a high pick this year will be much better than a high pick in most drafts.

2. The Nets have no incentive to be bad over the next few years, they have an owner with tons of money and a burning desire to win at all costs, and they will still have some solid talent in place moving forward to at least be an average team (i.e. Deron, Lopez, Joe Johnson). 

Considering all of those factors, I'd be surprised if any of those picks end up being really high.  I certainly hope I'm wrong, though!

A ton of money without the means to spend is not worth much, particularly with Brooklyn having pretty much depleted all their future assets, so they're quite stuck.

[PhoSita]

A ton of money without the means to spend is not worth much, particularly with Brooklyn having pretty much depleted all their future assets, so they're quite stuck.

Yeah, I understand.  I just see that the Nets are still going to have Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and Lopez moving forward, and they have no incentive at all to not go all-in every season since they have no picks.

I think they'll find ways to at least be a break-even team and compete for the playoffs, even if it means, for instance, trading Lopez for multiple role players.

[nickagneta]

  I just don't see what there is to celebrate about that.

How about that the Nets are so bad and destined to be so bad for years that we will be getting that awesome high draft pick not this year but in another which would catapult this team into instant contender rather than get it this year with a pathetic team so we could be catapulted straight into the lottery for another 2-3 years?

Two things:

1. The above could be true even if the Celtics were also getting a high lottery pick this season, so it doesn't really have any bearing on how I feel about how the Celtics are doing.  Also, there's reason to believe that a high pick this year will be much better than a high pick in most drafts.

2. The Nets have no incentive to be bad over the next few years, they have an owner with tons of money and a burning desire to win at all costs, and they will still have some solid talent in place moving forward to at least be an average team (i.e. Deron, Lopez, Joe Johnson). 

Considering all of those factors, I'd be surprised if any of those picks end up being really high.  I certainly hope I'm wrong, though!

First, Brooklyn might have all the money in the world. That's not going to make them better sooner. Just ask the Knicks about that.

Second, do you know how good the 2015, 2016, 2017 or 2018 class of draftees is going to be? Any clue whatsoever? So many are so focused on this year that they know nothing about the other and so are making outrageous claims regarding this year's group.

Wiggins went from sure fire number 1 to maybe third in just a few weeks of college ball. The Harrison twins went from top ten players this year to possible late rounders in the same time frame. There's talk Jabari Parker is staying in school. So maybe this year's group ain't looking as great as originally thought. An injury goes down and who knows.

And a future draft could contain a KG like player, a McGrady like player, a Karl Malone type player, a Chris Paul type player, which could make a good draft a great one.