Idea: Wallace/Humphries/Lee/picks for Lin/Asik/Montiejunas

[kozlodoev]

Last year he produced 10/11.7 in 30 MPG while playing elite defense.

The "elite defense" bit is certainly up for discussion, and Houston was middle of the pack in defensive rating last season.

Also, Asik is a liability in every possible way on offense. But I guess in a world where DeAndre Jordan earns $11 million, Asik is paid at market price.

[csfansince60s]

Hard to see why either team would be interested in this deal. It's basically a lose-lose.

Regardless, Lin and Asik are almost certain not to get traded together, since they make a combined $30mil next year.

They make a combined $10 million this season.  And they each only count $8-ish towards the cap next season.  So, it's not quite as bad as people make it out to be.

Morey was looking to trade Asik for a good SF or a big PF. 

If he wants a PF/SF we have Jeff Green who can play both.
Green for Asik straight up works.

I think a lot of Asik. Is that fair for both sides? If not, who would want more?

[PhoSita]

I'd take Asik and a 1st for Jeff Green.

[ssspence]

Hard to see why either team would be interested in this deal. It's basically a lose-lose.

Regardless, Lin and Asik are almost certain not to get traded together, since they make a combined $30mil next year.

They make a combined $10 million this season.  And they each only count $8-ish towards the cap next season.  So, it's not quite as bad as people make it out to be.

Morey was looking to trade Asik for a good SF or a big PF.  Now, he is reportedly asking for two firsts for Asik.  This gives him a little bit of what he wants, but not his ideal choices.  The Celtics pick up an above-average center who is better than pre-injury Perkins and dump the contracts of Wallace and Lee.

They still have to write a $15mil check to both. Doubtful that's of interest, especially if they plan to keep Rondo (riiiiiiiiight).

More importantly, why would Houston do this? Lin has been very good this year. He's one of the top finishers (statistically) in basketball. Why are they trading him and a coveted C for poop? For Asik, they want a guy who can make an impact right now.

[ssspence]

Asik is the most overrated(and overpaid) center in basketball

Asik seems to be underrated around here.  Andris Biedrins, Kendrick Perkins, and DeAndre Jordan are worse centers making more money than Asik this season.

I dont see how Asik is underrated. He plays 18 minutes a game and averages only 4 points 7 boards and .4 blocks a game. Overpayed, but thats what happens with centers I guess.

You're aware they acquire Dwight Howard this offseason?

[Fafnir]

Last year he produced 10/11.7 in 30 MPG while playing elite defense.

The "elite defense" bit is certainly up for discussion, and Houston was middle of the pack in defensive rating last season.

They were top 10 when he was on the floor and bottom of the league when he was off the floor. The perimeter defensive effort/talent to support him was bad too. (Harden/Lin/Beverley aren't good defenders)

Asik is an elite rim protector and rebounder at the C position. That has immense value as a player even if his offensive game is modeled on post injury Kendrick Perkins.

[byennie]

It's amazing to me how little people can agree on Asik. I recommend anyone who thinks Asik is not a top-10 center in this league read this:

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/15/4830936/omer-asik-defense-video-breakdown-houston-rockets

Is it because he looks like a softie or doesn't block shots hard enough? No, he's not Dwight Howard.

Why are people so willing to accept that Roy Hibbert or Marcus Camby (for example) is a DPOY but Asik shouldn't be a starter?

Asik started all 82 games for Houston last year.
He averaged 10 points, 12 rebounds and 1.1 blocks in just 30 minutes per game.
He's considered an elite defender by pretty much every advanced statistic including synergy, adjusted +/- and so forth.

Ok yeah, he'll never be pretty on offense, but he managed to shoot 54% from the field, average double figures, and create 3-4 more possessions via offensive rebound every night while anchoring the defense.

Max guy? No. Overpaid on any team where he's not backing up Dwight Howard? No way.

[byennie]

Last year he produced 10/11.7 in 30 MPG while playing elite defense.

The "elite defense" bit is certainly up for discussion, and Houston was middle of the pack in defensive rating last season.

Also, Asik is a liability in every possible way on offense. But I guess in a world where DeAndre Jordan earns $11 million, Asik is paid at market price.

I don't understand how it's up for discussion. Why do you think Houston gave him that contract after a year in which he averaged 3 points and 5 rebounds? Because he was off the charts in every advanced defensive metric and rebounded to boot.

Houston was middle of the pack defensively because they are a fast pace, run and gun team built around players like James Harden and Chandler Parsons. Middle of the pack is a testament to Asik more than anything else.

Liability on offense, well, I'm not going to argue that he's a good offensive player. But 10 points on 54% shooting and lots of offensive rebounds isn't exactly in *every possible way*. There are a lot more useless offensive players.

[fairweatherfan]

Liability on offense, well, I'm not going to argue that he's a good offensive player. But 10 points on 54% shooting and lots of offensive rebounds isn't exactly in *every possible way*. There are a lot more useless offensive players.

Asik is a decent offensive player, he's just not a very good scorer.  When Thibodeau goes out of his way repeatedly to compliment your screening, and you get 4 offensive boards per-36, you're contributing.

...please read the previous in Hubie Brown's voice.

[jambr380]

Last year he produced 10/11.7 in 30 MPG while playing elite defense.

The "elite defense" bit is certainly up for discussion, and Houston was middle of the pack in defensive rating last season.

Also, Asik is a liability in every possible way on offense. But I guess in a world where DeAndre Jordan earns $11 million, Asik is paid at market price.

Why all the hate for Deandre Jordan? I get that he sucks at free throw shooting, but he is putting together a pretty amazing season thus far with the following averages:

PPG: 10
RPG: 12.8
BPG: 2.2
SPG: 1.2
FG%: .595

He is also very decent on defense. We, as Celtics fans, should be a lot more bummed that we didn't get Jordan for Doc instead of the late first that we can only hope turns into a player like Jordan.

I would much much much rather have him than Asik - Asik is just not the type of player I think would help this team be where it eventually wants to be. Aim higher people.

[kozlodoev]

Last year he produced 10/11.7 in 30 MPG while playing elite defense.

The "elite defense" bit is certainly up for discussion, and Houston was middle of the pack in defensive rating last season.

Also, Asik is a liability in every possible way on offense. But I guess in a world where DeAndre Jordan earns $11 million, Asik is paid at market price.

Why all the hate for Deandre Jordan? I get that he sucks at free throw shooting, but he is putting together a pretty amazing season thus far with the following averages:

PPG: 10
RPG: 12.8
BPG: 2.2
SPG: 1.2
FG%: .595

He is also very decent on defense. We, as Celtics fans, should be a lot more bummed that we didn't get Jordan for Doc instead of the late first that we can only hope turns into a player like Jordan.

I would much much much rather have him than Asik - Asik is just not the type of player I think would help this team be where it eventually wants to be. Aim higher people.

It's only "pretty amazing" until you realize Doc is playing him 35+ minutes a game. On a per-minute basis he's been pretty much the same guy for his entire career, he has low basketball IQ, and his team defense has always been considered suspect. Oh, and did I mention he can't shoot or pass?

[kozlodoev]

Why would the rockets make this deal?

Why would we make this deal?

Here's the skinny: Due to the way the contracts are structured, Lin and Asik will make a combined $30 million next year. So there is a lot of incentive for Houston to even ship them out in a straight salary dump with some sweeteners.

Heck, even swapping them for Wallace and Lee may look appealing, since that will transform a $30 million obligation next season into $15/$15 over the next two years. So all of a sudden they have $56 million in salary in 2014 instead of the projected $71 million.

[byennie]

It's only "pretty amazing" until you realize Doc is playing him 35+ minutes a game. On a per-minute basis he's been pretty much the same guy for his entire career, he has low basketball IQ, and his team defense has always been considered suspect. Oh, and did I mention he can't shoot or pass?

If Deandre Jordan and Omer Asik are so bad... I'm really curious how many centers you think are "good"? Maybe 5 in the entire league?

[kozlodoev]

It's only "pretty amazing" until you realize Doc is playing him 35+ minutes a game. On a per-minute basis he's been pretty much the same guy for his entire career, he has low basketball IQ, and his team defense has always been considered suspect. Oh, and did I mention he can't shoot or pass?

If Deandre Jordan and Omer Asik are so bad... I'm really curious how many centers you think are "good"? Maybe 5 in the entire league?

I said that (a) Asik's defense may be overrated, and (b) Jordan is not worth $11 million, and his awesome stats are somewhat padded by the fact that he leads the league in minutes per game at the center position.

How you got from this to anyone being "so bad" is beyond me, so I don't really know what to tell you.

[byennie]

It's only "pretty amazing" until you realize Doc is playing him 35+ minutes a game. On a per-minute basis he's been pretty much the same guy for his entire career, he has low basketball IQ, and his team defense has always been considered suspect. Oh, and did I mention he can't shoot or pass?

If Deandre Jordan and Omer Asik are so bad... I'm really curious how many centers you think are "good"? Maybe 5 in the entire league?

I said that (a) Asik's defense may be overrated, and (b) Jordan is not worth $11 million, and his awesome stats are somewhat padded by the fact that he leads the league in minutes per game at the center position.

How you got from this to anyone being "so bad" is beyond me, so I don't really know what to tell you.

You are saying that Deandre Jordan (50th highest paid player in the league) and Asik (75th) are overpaid, even as young guys who signed their contracts recently. To me that implies that they are not even top-10 at their position. So I wonder how many centers you think are worth $11M/year and why that number should be so small?

You're in here shooting down ideas about how Asik and Jordan are pretty "good" so I don't think it was a crazy leap. Yes, I acknowledge that you didn't *literally* call them "bad".