Strictly Hypothetical: Would You Deal Rondo for Rose?

[crimson_stallion]

This draft looks similar to the Lebron draft in terms of depth of great talent.  Only Dumars screwed that draft up.  I'm sure the teams who drafted Lebron, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh were all pretty happy with their "luck" because it wasn't luck.  Just for this year having the gm "tank" looks like the soundest strategy for extremely low talent teams like the Celtics.

Really? Because neither Cleveland, Toronto nor Denver are looking like contenders right now...

Miami is the only one of those rings with a title, and that's only because three of the aforementioned stars happened to be best buddies and made dodgy dealings to join forces there...

The only team since that time that's been a consistent contender has been the Thunder, abd they had to pick up about five good picks (Durant, Green, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka) to get the success they've had.

Are you saying that those teams you listed are currently bad so they may as well have drafted stiffs in that draft?  A great player is an asset to any team if the gm has a clue.

No, I'm saying it's stupid to intentionally lose games and intentionally try to be the worst team in the NBA (and risk giving your young guys a listing mentality) purely for the hope of a high lottery pick, when that high lottery pick may well earn you a Darko Milicic, Andre Blatche, Michael Olowokandi, Andre Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Marvin Williams, Eddy Curry, Drew Golden, Shaun Livingston, Sheldon Williams, Damian Wagner, etc.

For every team out there who pulled a great player from a lottery pick, there are teams who pulled nothing but dissapointment.  If you try to win but are genuinely that bad then sure you'll be happy with a chance to pick in the lottery. If you are capable of winning games though, why lose on purpose and hurt the attitude of your young talent just for the sake of a lottery pick?

We have so many draft picks in the future, and the  Brooklyn ones are looking more and more like lottery picks every day.  If we can dish off Wallace and Hump for Amare then we'ok have $20M in cap space and solid draft picks every season, for years   pick up some more Sully/Bradley/Olynyk type talents in future drafts and trade them out for a good young scorer, then use the $20M in cap space to bring in a superstar.  At least in a trade you have a proven player with a legit idea of what you are getting...draft can go either way, and any suler-hyped star could easily become a high talent, poor attitude guy who just never gets it.

[chambers]

This draft looks similar to the Lebron draft in terms of depth of great talent.  Only Dumars screwed that draft up.  I'm sure the teams who drafted Lebron, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh were all pretty happy with their "luck" because it wasn't luck.  Just for this year having the gm "tank" looks like the soundest strategy for extremely low talent teams like the Celtics.

Really? Because neither Cleveland, Toronto nor Denver are looking like contenders right now...

Miami is the only one of those rings with a title, and that's only because three of the aforementioned stars happened to be best buddies and made dodgy dealings to join forces there...

The only team since that time that's been a consistent contender has been the Thunder, abd they had to pick up about five good picks (Durant, Green, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka) to get the success they've had.

At the end of the day you need more than top 10 picks, you also need the management that will surround those players with other elite talent and set up opportunities to make it happen.
If we had drafted Bosh or Lebron or Wade or Melo I think it's safe to say we'd be very happy.
They're all all stars, all played for USA, and Wade and Lebron both led their drafting teams to the finals. Not a bad crop. If you could draft someone as good as one of those guys I'd call it a win.

[LooseCannon]

Houston is a major city where free agents would like to play, Boston has not ever signed a marquee free agent, ever. We can sign mid level players like Jason Terry but even david west turned down coming to boston for another team and that was when we were legit title contenders.

West went to Indiana because they were a young playoff team with upside who could give him the sort of contract he wanted.  If the Celtics make the playoffs this season (and next), Boston will be an attractive free agent destination.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Houston is a major city where free agents would like to play, Boston has not ever signed a marquee free agent, ever. We can sign mid level players like Jason Terry but even david west turned down coming to boston for another team and that was when we were legit title contenders.

West went to Indiana because they were a young playoff team with upside who could give him the sort of contract he wanted.  If the Celtics make the playoffs this season (and next), Boston will be an attractive free agent destination.

West went to Indiana primarily because we couldn't find a place to send JO.

[LooseCannon]

Houston is a major city where free agents would like to play, Boston has not ever signed a marquee free agent, ever. We can sign mid level players like Jason Terry but even david west turned down coming to boston for another team and that was when we were legit title contenders.

West went to Indiana because they were a young playoff team with upside who could give him the sort of contract he wanted.  If the Celtics make the playoffs this season (and next), Boston will be an attractive free agent destination.

West went to Indiana primarily because we couldn't find a place to send JO.

Well, he didn't want to wait around.  Was Ainge unwilling to give up a first round pick as part of the deal and, if so, was that a mistake?

[Jailan34]

Houston is a major city where free agents would like to play, Boston has not ever signed a marquee free agent, ever. We can sign mid level players like Jason Terry but even david west turned down coming to boston for another team and that was when we were legit title contenders.

West went to Indiana because they were a young playoff team with upside who could give him the sort of contract he wanted.  If the Celtics make the playoffs this season (and next), Boston will be an attractive free agent destination.

I'll say it again the celtics have never signed a major free agent, we just aren't an attractive destination. Even if we make the playoffs that won't make star free agents want to sign here anymore as they haven't ever in the past.  We need to get our players through the draft or a trade, both if which require assets we won't get by being the 8th seed and losing in the first round again.

[LooseCannon]

I'll say it again the celtics have never signed a major free agent, we just aren't an attractive destination. Even if we make the playoffs that won't make star free agents want to sign here anymore as they haven't ever in the past.  We need to get our players through the draft or a trade, both if which require assets we won't get by being the 8th seed and losing in the first round again.

If a star player were to become available right this moment, the Celtics have the assets to acquire that player tomorrow.  That's even if you put something like top-12 protection on the Celtics' 2014 pick or avoid trading it.

The Celtics can attract stars, especially if Brad Stevens can gain a reputation as a great coach (such as by winning enough games to be named Coach of the Year this season).  However, the team and system Ainge and Stevens are trying to build might not be attractive to the sort of iso-ball volume scorer who might be perceived as being at least a little selfish on offense and not caring about defense.

[indeedproceed]

Am I permitted to say (edited)?

No.

[ssspence]

That David West signed in Indiana (clearly a good choice in hindsight) is a proof point that the talk around good FAs only signing in warm cities is just an oversimplified generalization. West didn't go there for Indianapolis' beaches or fine dining -- he went because it was a good basketball opportunity, and the money made sense.

[Jailan34]

That David West signed in Indiana (clearly a good choice in hindsight) is a proof point that the talk around good FAs only signing in warm cities is just an oversimplified generalization. West didn't go there for Indianapolis' beaches or fine dining -- he went because it was a good basketball opportunity, and the money made sense.

I don't think it disproves the FA signing in warm cities because David West was not in his prime, or a all star player when he singed there, just a good starter. The real stars of the league have more options to choose from, and they prefer warm cities or cities with large markets. I love my Celtics but those kind of things matter to players. It's unfortunate but fine with me, because once they get here they see how great the city/fanbase is and tend to stay, which is why trades or the draft can work well for us.

[LooseCannon]

I suspect Boston will be more appealing to a more mature veteran who is around 30-ish rather than a guy in his mid-20s.  I'm not afraid of older players.

[mmmmm]

The 'FAs won't come to Boston because of the cold' thing is silly, imho.

When is the last time Boston even _had_ a significant amount of money under the cap to actually _spend_ on a star free agent who chose to go elsewhere?

David West is about the only recent example - and he went to the Pacers, not somewhere warm.  He pretty clearly chose them as a better fit for his needs at the time.  Among other things, he would have a bigger role on that team and a bigger annual salary.

Though the initial deal was for only 2 yeas compared to the 3 that Danny could offer, that was moot as he since then has extended with a new 3 year deal paying him 12M per through 2016 - something I doubt Danny would have been able or willing to do.   In other words, over the long run, West has and will make a lot more money playing for Indiana than he probably would have with Boston.

Other Boston teams don't seem to have had any trouble signing big name free agents.

I think this meme is bogus.

[Celtics4ever]

The 'FAs won't come to Boston

It took the Big three to draw em here and promise of winning.   I don't think we are a big free agent draw.  Some of it could be the cold but I think it's the fans.    Fans here are great, clever and intense.   I have read players talk about the fans.  Sure they are not as bad as Cleveland or Philly as far as throwing things.   But here the abuse is psychological and guys might recall it.

I think without being close to the teams in the hunt for the title we have zero chance at marque free agents.   We might get a discount from Haywood though.  Stevens doesn't have an NBA rep.   Guys wants to play with pass first Rondo though.  But I think the titles are the real reason.  If two teams are close the weather might make a difference.

This is real reason we don't get free agents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnapeg4Igck

[LooseCannon]

Certain types of players probably shouldn't come to Boston.  A guy like Dwight Howard shouldn't be a Celtic because I don't think he could handle being compared constantly to Bill Russell.