Is Rose the most overrated MVP in league history?

[KCattheStripe]

Wes Unseld.

[action781]

No more overrated than David Robinson in '95.  The Admiral wasn't even the best player at his position. 

[BballTim]

No more overrated than David Robinson in '95.  The Admiral wasn't even the best player at his position.

  I'd agree with this. SA had a good team that year and when you'd see the highlights from the games they'd always seem to show Robinson scoring in the last few seconds of a blowout win. The best part of that season may have been the way Hakeem outplayed him in the postseason.

[soap07]

He was definitely a top 15 player that year.

He was definitely better than a top 15 player that year. In a Lebron-less world, nobody bats an eye at Rose winning that MVP. He was the best player on the best regular season team, and a top-5 player in the league. I agree that Rose didn't deserve the MVP, and that personally Howard or Durant looked like better choices, but I think 'most overrated MVP' is high-order hyperbole. Derrick Rose was a revelation that year, and the clear best player and emotional leader of the best (regular season) team in basketball.

I think there's something to be said for it though. Being the Most Overrated MVP isn't a terrible title. You're still an MVP.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but think about this: There has never been an NBA MVP that hasn't made the HOF. Iverson might be the first and people are pretty split on him. But no one disagrees that his MVP season was legit dominance.

Does anyone think Rose will make the Hall? I just don't think his prime dominance talent is in the same league of other MVPs. Not Nash, not AI, not Dirk.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that on a talent level, Rose is the worst NBA MVP in history. Overrated is a subjective term. But on a talent level, he just doesn't match up to other NBA MVPs.

Phenomenal point.  At this pace, I don't see Rose making the hall-of-fame...even despite that fluke season.

  I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any former MVPs not in the hall, or any players who averaged 20+ points and 6+ assists over their careers. I'm not a Rose fan, and he wasn't my choice for MVP, but it's unlikely he'd miss the hall if he's healthy going forward.

I would agree that Rose would probably make the HOF if he was healthy. I just don't see him as a dominant player or someone who could be the best player on a championship team. That doesn't make him a bad player. I think he's great. I just think the MVP was a fluke and he shouldn't have won it that year. I think he's on the same level as Rondo and Westbrook...neither of whom will ever win an MVP.

To branch off of Tim's point--Rose's MVP makes it more likely he ends up in the Hall of Fame, not less.

I don't believe anyone is arguing this point. Of course if you win an MVP, you're more likely to get into the Hall. Especially in the NBA.

But the year he won the MVP, it's arguable that he wasn't even a top 10 player in the league, which is incredibly rare for an MVP.

[BballTim]

He was definitely a top 15 player that year.

He was definitely better than a top 15 player that year. In a Lebron-less world, nobody bats an eye at Rose winning that MVP. He was the best player on the best regular season team, and a top-5 player in the league. I agree that Rose didn't deserve the MVP, and that personally Howard or Durant looked like better choices, but I think 'most overrated MVP' is high-order hyperbole. Derrick Rose was a revelation that year, and the clear best player and emotional leader of the best (regular season) team in basketball.

I think there's something to be said for it though. Being the Most Overrated MVP isn't a terrible title. You're still an MVP.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but think about this: There has never been an NBA MVP that hasn't made the HOF. Iverson might be the first and people are pretty split on him. But no one disagrees that his MVP season was legit dominance.

Does anyone think Rose will make the Hall? I just don't think his prime dominance talent is in the same league of other MVPs. Not Nash, not AI, not Dirk.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that on a talent level, Rose is the worst NBA MVP in history. Overrated is a subjective term. But on a talent level, he just doesn't match up to other NBA MVPs.

Phenomenal point.  At this pace, I don't see Rose making the hall-of-fame...even despite that fluke season.

  I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any former MVPs not in the hall, or any players who averaged 20+ points and 6+ assists over their careers. I'm not a Rose fan, and he wasn't my choice for MVP, but it's unlikely he'd miss the hall if he's healthy going forward.

I would agree that Rose would probably make the HOF if he was healthy. I just don't see him as a dominant player or someone who could be the best player on a championship team. That doesn't make him a bad player. I think he's great. I just think the MVP was a fluke and he shouldn't have won it that year. I think he's on the same level as Rondo and Westbrook...neither of whom will ever win an MVP.

To branch off of Tim's point--Rose's MVP makes it more likely he ends up in the Hall of Fame, not less.

I don't believe anyone is arguing this point. Of course if you win an MVP, you're more likely to get into the Hall. Especially in the NBA.

But the year he won the MVP, it's arguable that he wasn't even a top 10 player in the league, which is incredibly rare for an MVP.

  Again, I also scoffed at his mvp award, but in terms of the hall you obviously don't have to be at a "best player on a title team" level.

[Fafnir]

He was definitely a top 15 player that year.

He was definitely better than a top 15 player that year. In a Lebron-less world, nobody bats an eye at Rose winning that MVP. He was the best player on the best regular season team, and a top-5 player in the league. I agree that Rose didn't deserve the MVP, and that personally Howard or Durant looked like better choices, but I think 'most overrated MVP' is high-order hyperbole. Derrick Rose was a revelation that year, and the clear best player and emotional leader of the best (regular season) team in basketball.

I think there's something to be said for it though. Being the Most Overrated MVP isn't a terrible title. You're still an MVP.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but think about this: There has never been an NBA MVP that hasn't made the HOF. Iverson might be the first and people are pretty split on him. But no one disagrees that his MVP season was legit dominance.

Does anyone think Rose will make the Hall? I just don't think his prime dominance talent is in the same league of other MVPs. Not Nash, not AI, not Dirk.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that on a talent level, Rose is the worst NBA MVP in history. Overrated is a subjective term. But on a talent level, he just doesn't match up to other NBA MVPs.

Phenomenal point.  At this pace, I don't see Rose making the hall-of-fame...even despite that fluke season.

Depends on how HoF views one and done in college, His one year in college was pretty awesome. If he can play longer, even as a role player like Hill he will get in. Bernard King got in and he's a similar sort probably over rated scorer who got hurt in his prime.

[soap07]

  Again, I also scoffed at his mvp award, but in terms of the hall you obviously don't have to be at a "best player on a title team" level.

See: Miller, Reggie.

[wdleehi]

Allen Iverson

2nd.

Please explain how Allen Iverson is an overrated MVP

He was the ultimate jack up shots at a low %. 


42% shooting.  Jacked up 25 shots a game.  On a team that won based on the defense of the rest of the team in a very sad, weak East.



The MVP of that year was Shaq.  Duncan was better that year.  Kobe was better that year.

[Chris]

He wasn't overrated when he won the MVP.  He just is in danger of entering Grant Hill territory with injuries.  Which is sad, because he is an exciting player, and one of just a handful of true superstars in the NBA. 

[crimson_stallion]

I don't know about the most overrated of all time, but definately up there.

It doesn't really matter how you look at it, Rose did not deserve that award.  He won it because he was media friendly (young success story, flashly play style, etc) and not because of his play.

People use the argument that he was the best player on the best regular season team.  First of all that is debatable.  He was the highest scoring player, the flashiest player and the most physically gifted player...that does not necessarilly mean the best player.  From what I recall Noah had a much higher Net Rating that season then Rose did, and considering he was the anchor of the Bull's defense I believe that they would have suffered much more if they lost Noah than if they lost Rose.

But anyway the fact of the matter is this.  Was Rose the best player in the NBA?  No, he clearly was not.  Lebron was better and I'd also argue that Wade was too, likewise Kobe.  Then there was Dwight, CP3, Dirk, you name it.  Rose was definately not the best player in the league. 

Was he the most valuable?  Of course not.  Look at how much talent was on that team.  Rose could have been lost for the season and they would STILL have made a strong playoff push.  Look at other teams such as Orlando and New Orleans.  Without guys like Howard and CP3 those teams would have been bottom tier lottery teams, so what does that tell you about player value?

The award was rigged.  Everybody loved Rose because he was young, was fresh, had that "nice guy" mentality, and he simply sold tickets.  People got lazy and insisted on simply taking the "most exciting player on the best team" approch to voting, and as a result we got that garbage result.

Rose never has and probably never will be an MVP calibre player.  All-Star sure, but MVP? No. Not even close.

Derrick's career averages: 

21 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal on 46%/31%/81% shooting

Those are Tim Hardaway type numbers.  Tim Hardaway was never an MVP.

[ssspence]

He wasn't overrated when he won the MVP.  He just is in danger of entering Grant Hill territory with injuries.  Which is sad, because he is an exciting player, and one of just a handful of true superstars in the NBA.

Agreed

[crimson_stallion]

Oh and for the record, I think Nash deserved hisMVP awards.

Nash (like Rose) was not known for being a strong defender, but you could argue that he could go down as one of the most skilled offensive players in NBA history.  He's one of the all time assist leaders, one of the highest basketball IQ's I have seen, one of the greatest pure shooters of all time, and pure clutch.  Nash was a guy who achieved everything he did despite the fact that he was never really that physically gifted or athletic.

Rose is the opposite.  Rose is all about the physical gifts.  His only elite level skills are his abillity to finish in the paint and ability to finish with contact, and both rely entirely on his athletic abilities.  His actual skill levels are really quite average.  Average IQ, average rebounder, average jump shot, only slightly above average passer, well below average defender. 

[Redz]

He was definitely a top 15 player that year.

He was definitely better than a top 15 player that year. In a Lebron-less world, nobody bats an eye at Rose winning that MVP. He was the best player on the best regular season team, and a top-5 player in the league. I agree that Rose didn't deserve the MVP, and that personally Howard or Durant looked like better choices, but I think 'most overrated MVP' is high-order hyperbole. Derrick Rose was a revelation that year, and the clear best player and emotional leader of the best (regular season) team in basketball.

I think there's something to be said for it though. Being the Most Overrated MVP isn't a terrible title. You're still an MVP.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but think about this: There has never been an NBA MVP that hasn't made the HOF. Iverson might be the first and people are pretty split on him. But no one disagrees that his MVP season was legit dominance.

Does anyone think Rose will make the Hall? I just don't think his prime dominance talent is in the same league of other MVPs. Not Nash, not AI, not Dirk.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that on a talent level, Rose is the worst NBA MVP in history. Overrated is a subjective term. But on a talent level, he just doesn't match up to other NBA MVPs.

Phenomenal point.  At this pace, I don't see Rose making the hall-of-fame...even despite that fluke season.

Depends on how HoF views one and done in college, His one year in college was pretty awesome. If he can play longer, even as a role player like Hill he will get in. Bernard King got in and he's a similar sort probably over rated scorer who got hurt in his prime.

The Hall of Fame doesn't seem to weigh too much on NCAA careers unless you coached there for a long time.  Otherwise Bobby Hurley would be in.

[Celtics4ever]

One of the most over rated was 2008–09 LeBron James.  Definitely was a great year for him statwise and certainly he was the most valuable Cav.   But vanished in the playoffs and took his team nowhere.

KG's MVP was over rated too, in my book.  Let the flames begin..

[sofutomygaha]

Whether he is or not, I think it's really interesting that people all over the place are asking the question now.

I think the reason is because a lot of folks have been hoping that Rose would build a resume consistent with the MVP award- then his supporters could point to his successes since the award as confirmation that he was deserving of it.

Now that he is hurt again, there's this real possibility that he will never have the chance to retroactively earn the award.

My personal view is that Rose was not a top-5 player when he won the award. He won it because he looked the part as the long-awaited savior of Chicago basketball at a time when several of the league's best players were turning heel.

He wasn't the least deserving MVP candidate, though, and neither was Nash or Iverson. Dave Cowens was- he stole the award in a year where Kareem had one of the greatest seasons any player ever has had and Old Man Wilt was still completely unstoppable. Cowens won the award as the proverbial best player on the best team, which is often a formula for bad decision making. It also probably didn't hurt that he was white.