Does Stevens hate international players or something?

[Celtics4ever]

He is a stat and analytics guy.   That means he goes by the numbers.  Vitor had 2 good games then meh.   He made his own bed.  I think international players have nothing to do with it.   

[kozlodoev]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.

Just out of curiosity, how does the JG-BB-VF pairing work?

[jc3celticsphan]

if kelly can play good team defense i dont see why not. stevens seems to go for the players who realy help our offense and are unselfish. vitor lacks an inside game right now where he should be able to take advantage of his size.

The problem is that right now Olynyk doesn't play good anything. He's shooting under .400 from the field, he's averaging 3.5 fouls in 20 minutes of playing time, and struggles in his matchups both offensively and devensively on most night.

So while someone correctly pointed out that Faverani has had some bad nights, to me it's a clear upgrade to switch to a player that's had some good and some bad nights rather than keep a player in who is pretty much mediocre to bad night in and night out.

Or in other words, Faverani is clearly out best center. There's no excuse for not giving him regular burn every game.

yeah but thats just kelly not knocking down his shots hes been an above average rebounder when in the game better then any of us had anticipated. vitor is an upgrade on the defensive end i agree but we cant chance having bad offense turn into easy layups on the other end it just cancels everything out. which is why vitor can be a solid role player to matchup against other bigs.

im pretty sure we havnt seen the best of kelly yet but i do agree fav should get more minutes we need a defensive presence downlow

im not picking offense over defense its just we have to work with what we have on this roster and i like kellys effort and hustle it makes up for his post defense

Olynyk has been a pretty average rebounder (13.5% TRR, dead on at the average rebounding rate for PFs last season). Given this is about the only area where he has contributed consistently, it's not much of a redeeming factor to me. Faverani, on the other hand, has been our best rebounder so far.

I have no idea how Faverani causes "bad offense that turns into easy layups". His offensive rating is a good deal better than Olynyk, who has decidedly been, so far, our worst big both offensively and defensively.

im not into stats players struggle especially the rookie hes struggled early on so his numbers arnt going to look great  i go by what i see and that is vitor is very limited on that end and the fact that we dont have a pg doesnt help him at all

kelly>vitor on offense im sure you agree

kelly makes our offense more versatile creating more options im not saying vitor is bad at all or hes the cause of our bad offense. we just need all the offensive help we can get so defenses arnt scoring so easy in transition.

[D.o.s.]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.

Just out of curiosity, how does the JG-BB-VF pairing work?

Per NBA stats (with bradley + crawford):

Pace        ORtg      DRtg      NetRtg
95.56        93.2   96.7      -3.6

http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?TeamID=1610612738&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=Totals

[Celtics18]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.

Just out of curiosity, how does the JG-BB-VF pairing work?

Per NBA stats (with bradley + crawford):

Pace        ORtg      DRtg      NetRtg
95.56        93.2   96.7      -3.6

http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?TeamID=1610612738&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=Totals

I've got nothing against looking at stats, but it's a little bit early to be drawing any concrete conclusions from any of these numbers after just 15 games. 

[BballTim]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

  What's pos?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

  What's pos?

It's either possessions or Piece of S...omething. But I'm only guessing here.

[BballTim]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

  What's pos?

It's either possessions or Piece of S...omething. But I'm only guessing here.

  I had either piece of something or some weird derivation of minutes played. Obviously you're more awake than I am this morning.

[kozlodoev]

He is a stat and analytics guy.   That means he goes by the numbers.  Vitor had 2 good games then meh.   He made his own bed.  I think international players have nothing to do with it.

Um, sorry, this is just not true.

And the fact remains that it has been twice this season that Faverani has had a patch of 4-5 decent games just to be rewarded with a three game streak where he plays about ~25 minutes total.

And if you think that Faverani has been "meh" after his first two games, that means that Olynyk has been "meh" for the last 6 games, yet he's been force fed minutes while showing zero improvement in the process.

There's an argument to be made about Olynyk's playing time, but this is simply not it.

[mmmmm]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.

Just out of curiosity, how does the JG-BB-VF pairing work?

Excellent question:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3
JG+BB+VF      269   91.8   98.9   -7.1
GW+BB+VF      192   86.5  100.0  -13.5
GW+JS+KO      104  108.7  123.1  -14.4


So, the Bass+VF pairing, has not done so great, though a little better with Wallace than JS & KO with Wallace.   Thus, making for a slightly better 'bench trio'.

Also:  "pos" == "possessions"

None of these should be considered large samples.  Obviously the "JG+JS+VF" sample is tiny.   

These aren't big enough to be very 'predictive', but should only be taken as measurements of 'how things have gone'.

[Celtics18]

All joking about preferences based on nationality and hairdos aside, I think Vitor has earned bigger minutes.  It's a bit of a conundrum for me, though, because from my vantage point, I want to see all four of our rotation bigs get legitimate starter level minutes this season.  I think we've seen good stuff from all of them. 

Obviously, however, they can't all play 30 minutes a game. 

[Casperian]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.

Still on a crusade, guava?