Does Stevens hate international players or something?

[jc3celticsphan]

Probably trying to develop Kelly as fast as they can .  Vitor has so much more court time coming in.      They are valuing learning time over winning.

if that was the case i think he would have been in the starting lineup from the start of the season

[RJ87]

...   if Vitor was starting, one of two things would happen.  KO would be on the bench, and the title of this thread would either be "Does Stevens hate rookies?," or Sully would be on the bench and the title would be "Does Stevens hate fat kids?"

Hahaha. TP.

[kozlodoev]

if kelly can play good team defense i dont see why not. stevens seems to go for the players who realy help our offense and are unselfish. vitor lacks an inside game right now where he should be able to take advantage of his size.

The problem is that right now Olynyk doesn't play good anything. He's shooting under .400 from the field, he's averaging 3.5 fouls in 20 minutes of playing time, and struggles in his matchups both offensively and devensively on most night.

So while someone correctly pointed out that Faverani has had some bad nights, to me it's a clear upgrade to switch to a player that's had some good and some bad nights rather than keep a player in who is pretty much mediocre to bad night in and night out.

Or in other words, Faverani is clearly out best center. There's no excuse for not giving him regular burn every game.

yeah but thats just kelly not knocking down his shots hes been an above average rebounder when in the game better then any of us had anticipated. vitor is an upgrade on the defensive end i agree but we cant chance having bad offense turn into easy layups on the other end it just cancels everything out. which is why vitor can be a solid role player to matchup against other bigs.

im pretty sure we havnt seen the best of kelly yet but i do agree fav should get more minutes we need a defensive presence downlow

im not picking offense over defense its just we have to work with what we have on this roster and i like kellys effort and hustle it makes up for his post defense

Olynyk has been a pretty average rebounder (13.5% TRR, dead on at the average rebounding rate for PFs last season). Given this is about the only area where he has contributed consistently, it's not much of a redeeming factor to me. Faverani, on the other hand, has been our best rebounder so far.

I have no idea how Faverani causes "bad offense that turns into easy layups". His offensive rating is a good deal better than Olynyk, who has decidedly been, so far, our worst big both offensively and defensively.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Vitor's been fairly inconsistent, and a lot of his individual success seems to come at the expense of the team.

I agree that he's inconsistent, not the other part.

Certain match ups seem to cause Vitor problems. My untrained eye tells me he's still not defending mobile big men too well. It kind of shows in his minutes played (vs. Utah's Kanter, vs. Miami's Bosh, vs. San Antonio's Splitter he logged significantly fewer minutes; while against Gasol and the Grizzlies and Pek and the Timberwolves he logged big minutes).

His problem, or at least an area of concern of his, coming in has been defense. While he's a pleasant surprise so far in that aspect (along with being awesome in other areas), it's probably still a work in progress.

A case in point: video of Vitor's sad defense vs. the Hawks.

[kozlodoev]

Vitor's been fairly inconsistent, and a lot of his individual success seems to come at the expense of the team.

I agree that he's inconsistent, not the other part.

Certain match ups seem to cause Vitor problems. My untrained eye tells me he's still not defending mobile big men too well. It kind of shows in his minutes played (vs. Utah's Kanter, vs. Miami's Bosh, vs. San Antonio's Splitter he logged significantly fewer minutes; while against Gasol and the Grizzlies and Pek and the Timberwolves he logged big minutes).

His problem, or at least an area of concern of his, coming in has been defense. While he's a pleasant surprise so far in that aspect (along with being awesome in other areas), it's probably still a work in progress.

A case in point: video of Vitor's sad defense vs. the Hawks.

Even with this, he's curiously the person with the highest defensive rating on the team, by far (as per Basketball Reference).

[chenaren]

Does Stevens

[pokeKingCurtis]

Vitor's been fairly inconsistent, and a lot of his individual success seems to come at the expense of the team.

I agree that he's inconsistent, not the other part.

Certain match ups seem to cause Vitor problems. My untrained eye tells me he's still not defending mobile big men too well. It kind of shows in his minutes played (vs. Utah's Kanter, vs. Miami's Bosh, vs. San Antonio's Splitter he logged significantly fewer minutes; while against Gasol and the Grizzlies and Pek and the Timberwolves he logged big minutes).

His problem, or at least an area of concern of his, coming in has been defense. While he's a pleasant surprise so far in that aspect (along with being awesome in other areas), it's probably still a work in progress.

A case in point: video of Vitor's sad defense vs. the Hawks.

Even with this, he's curiously the person with the highest defensive rating on the team, by far (as per Basketball Reference).

imo:

He certainly has the tools and has been showing good defense against the right matchups. I thought he held his own very well against the monster in Memphis (Gasol). That's undeniably one part of the equation to his good stats.

The other is that Brad Stevens has kind of been protecting him (whether it be intentionally or inadvertently).

The game against the Jazz is a great case in point. Vitor got the start, but the Favors/Kanter duo were having their way and Vitor's minutes got cut way short.

Even with the inconsistent minutes, Vitor still averages 17 minutes. That's pretty good for an unfinished product. As always, we'll see what happens when the dust settles since it's pretty much all knee jerk reactions now less than 20 games into the season.

[BballTim]

I dont get at all why Vitor isn't starting with Sully in the front court whether we have Kelly or not. Everytime he's got the minutes he's performed very well yet Stevens demotes him to 10 minutes every game. He was beasting at the start of the season when he was starting. Olynyk, Bass and Wallace can get pretty much all the minutes off the bench so it's not like Kelly wont get a lot of playing time. The rest of the guys like Lee, Humphries and Pressey, I dont really care too much whether they get to play or not.

That must be it.  But, if he takes Klynyk out of the starting lineup, it will only be proof that coach Brad hates Canadians. 

Maybe he hates Brazilians more than he hates Canadians.   

  Maybe it's just that haircut. My wife thinks it looks pretty stupid.

[coco]

Vitor's been fairly inconsistent, and a lot of his individual success seems to come at the expense of the team.

Not to mention starting is relatively arbitrary. It's finishing that matters.

I like Vitor, but this quote pretty much says it all.

TP

[Celtics18]

I dont get at all why Vitor isn't starting with Sully in the front court whether we have Kelly or not. Everytime he's got the minutes he's performed very well yet Stevens demotes him to 10 minutes every game. He was beasting at the start of the season when he was starting. Olynyk, Bass and Wallace can get pretty much all the minutes off the bench so it's not like Kelly wont get a lot of playing time. The rest of the guys like Lee, Humphries and Pressey, I dont really care too much whether they get to play or not.

That must be it.  But, if he takes Klynyk out of the starting lineup, it will only be proof that coach Brad hates Canadians. 

Maybe he hates Brazilians more than he hates Canadians.   

  Maybe it's just that haircut. My wife thinks it looks pretty stupid.

Yeah, it could definitely be the hairdo.

[D.o.s.]

Does Stevens

Stevens is singular.

ex.
If you put his full name in there, you wouldn't type "Do Brad Stevens hate international players or something?"

[hwangjini_1]

I dont get at all why Vitor isn't starting with Sully in the front court whether we have Kelly or not. Everytime he's got the minutes he's performed very well yet Stevens demotes him to 10 minutes every game. He was beasting at the start of the season when he was starting. Olynyk, Bass and Wallace can get pretty much all the minutes off the bench so it's not like Kelly wont get a lot of playing time. The rest of the guys like Lee, Humphries and Pressey, I dont really care too much whether they get to play or not.

That must be it.  But, if he takes Klynyk out of the starting lineup, it will only be proof that coach Brad hates Canadians. 

Maybe he hates Brazilians more than he hates Canadians.   

  Maybe it's just that haircut. My wife thinks it looks pretty stupid.

Yeah, it could definitely be the hairdo.

yes, yes...the hairdo is exactly it. have you seen stevens' hair? he probably thinks vitor's hair is too long as well.

proof? he starts sully and bass regularly and they dont have the same "hair problem" of vitor and olly....but then again, maybe it is only foreign hair that stevens hates?

[guava_wrench]

One thing for sure, the only acceptable reason for not giving a guy minutes is that you hate some demographic that they belong to.

[mmmmm]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

[guava_wrench]

I think that this isn't necessarily about Vitor versus Olynyk.

Given that Green and Sullinger are going to be 2/3 of the starting front court, it matters just how complementary the other body is.

The samples sizes are small, but so far, here are the results of the three likely combinations:

Front Court   pos  ORtg   DRtg  NetRtg
JG+JS+BB      138   86.2   94.2   -8.0
JG+JS+KO      161  110.6   96.9  +13.7
JG+JS+VF       15   80.0  133.3  -53.3


For whatever Olynyk's perceived 'flaws individually, the trio of Green, Sullinger and Olynyk has at least performed well so far on both ends.

In limited sample size, of course.

TP. Another case where you needs stats to see the big picture.