Boston Globe questions Brad Stevens

[saltlover]

Didn't we lose our home opener to he Bucks last year by double digits, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo on the team?  This on the heels of a blowout against the Heat?  Game 3 we played a good first quarter and were able to bsrely hang on against the Wizards who were being led by Jordan Crawford.  This team doesn't seem appreciably worse through 2 games than last year's mediocre squad, just going by on-court performance.

I think I'm going to need a break from these forums for the season if this daily dissection of a mediocre squad continues.  You've all expected this all summer.  Few have disagreed with you.  The disagreements have been where on the spectrum between mediocre and abyssmal this team will be.  The rush to say "I was more right!" is absurd.

[Birdman]

He is a rookie coach who never been in an NBA game, both playing or coaching...so he has a lot to learn and what better time than this season...

[Endless Paradise]

Carlesimo went on to have a pretty solid coaching career--he definitely did wonders for that Nets team in the second half of last year.

Not really; don't get the wrong impression from looking at their record.  Carlesimo just allowed the inherent talent on that team to play itself to wins -- there wasn't much coaching involved.  There's a reason why the Nets were emphasizing getting away from a marginalizing, iso-heavy offense over the offseason.  There's also a reason why he was so unceremoniously dumped right after the playoff exit.  Starting a guy like Reggie Evans as your power forward and turning Gerald Wallace into a spot-up shooter generally aren't good ideas. 

[BballTim]

By the same token, when last seen before this season this team was struggling to run anything against a mediocre Knicks defense despite having KG/PP/Jet instead of Wallace and one of the most highly regarded coaches in the league.

That's the point, it's not by the same token. There's a difference between struggling to run your stuff and not running any stuff. Last year's team knew exactly what they were running, they just couldn't run it very well (age, injuries, you name it). This year's team has no clue.

  Again, you're somewhat ignoring the difference in personnel and experience between the coach and the players. I think you could go back to the 2007 season when PP was out and you'd see the same lack of execution on offense.

[BballTim]

Carlesimo went on to have a pretty solid coaching career--he definitely did wonders for that Nets team in the second half of last year.

Not really; don't get the wrong impression from looking at their record.  Carlesimo just allowed the inherent talent on that team to play itself to wins -- there wasn't much coaching involved.

  That's fairly nebulous. I mean, one could make the same argument about Phil Jackson's teams.

[Mr October]

Can Stevens handle this level of scrutiny? He seems like a sweet guy, but this isn't Indy, folks here don't have too much patience for a guy who can't control his team.

Sure he can. People can get mad, but it's not subject to their approval. This coach has a huge, long-term contract and the full support of ownership.

He will have ownership's approval only so long. Remember, Pitino didn't make it through half of his contract and the C's committed more years and tens of millions of dollars more to him than to Stevens.

Stevens will be given some leeway but if he is obviously not the man for the job, contract or not, ownership will dump him. My guess is he has until about half way through next year to basically experiment and make mistakes, even huge mistakes. That is unless he loses the clubhouse completely, then all bets are off.

TP. i agree. Stevens has a free pass this year because expectations with this roster are so low. Then we will see what the roster and expectations are a year from now.

[kozlodoev]

By the same token, when last seen before this season this team was struggling to run anything against a mediocre Knicks defense despite having KG/PP/Jet instead of Wallace and one of the most highly regarded coaches in the league.

That's the point, it's not by the same token. There's a difference between struggling to run your stuff and not running any stuff. Last year's team knew exactly what they were running, they just couldn't run it very well (age, injuries, you name it). This year's team has no clue.

  Again, you're somewhat ignoring the difference in personnel and experience between the coach and the players. I think you could go back to the 2007 season when PP was out and you'd see the same lack of execution on offense.

I don't think I am. A coach can install plays regardless of the experience and the skill of the personnel. Again, I have no expectations about the level of execution, but at least try to run something instead of tossing lateral passes for 15 seconds -- even if it would be a rudimentary,  low-percentage clear-out or post-up for someone.

Maybe I'm forgetting how it was before the trade, but I don't think it's acceptable for a coach of any experience level to watch this from the sidelines without calling anything.

[playdream]

By the same token, when last seen before this season this team was struggling to run anything against a mediocre Knicks defense despite having KG/PP/Jet instead of Wallace and one of the most highly regarded coaches in the league.

That's the point, it's not by the same token. There's a difference between struggling to run your stuff and not running any stuff. Last year's team knew exactly what they were running, they just couldn't run it very well (age, injuries, you name it). This year's team has no clue.

  Again, you're somewhat ignoring the difference in personnel and experience between the coach and the players. I think you could go back to the 2007 season when PP was out and you'd see the same lack of execution on offense.

I don't think I am. A coach can install plays regardless of the experience and the skill of the personnel. Again, I have no expectations about the level of execution, but at least try to run something instead of tossing lateral passes for 15 seconds -- even if it would be a rudimentary,  low-percentage clear-out or post-up for someone.

Maybe I'm forgetting how it was before the trade, but I don't think it's acceptable for a coach of any experience level to watch this from the sidelines without calling anything.

He got us a lose = closer to Wiggins

[sed522002]

Didn't we lose our home opener to he Bucks last year by double digits, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo on the team?  This on the heels of a blowout against the Heat?  Game 3 we played a good first quarter and were able to bsrely hang on against the Wizards who were being led by Jordan Crawford.  This team doesn't seem appreciably worse through 2 games than last year's mediocre squad, just going by on-court performance.

I think I'm going to need a break from these forums for the season if this daily dissection of a mediocre squad continues.  You've all expected this all summer.  Few have disagreed with you.  The disagreements have been where on the spectrum between mediocre and abyssmal this team will be.  The rush to say "I was more right!" is absurd.

Totally agree. I think people want to choose what to remember with this team. If the Pistons beat them tonight some will forget how they had their way with us last year, with Kg, Pierce and Rondo playing.

[Moranis]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

You can't look for examples in part because the college coaches get bad jobs.  I mean they don't get jobs of teams that are realistic contenders.  I mean when you get a team with no talent, how can anyone expect you to win.

Yes it has always failed, if it is because good teams hire coaches with NBA experience, either as a player or at least as an assistant coach, it still means college coaches with no NBA experience have always failed as new NBA coaches.  Stevens is a sacrificial lamb but paid well and may someday get a 2nd opportunity, with experience.

Jack Ramsey.  Bill Fitch.  Cotton Fitzsimmons.  Larry Brown was an assistant coach at North Carolina before his first head coaching job in the NBA.


Very few coaches succeed when they get a bad job on a team with no talent.  It doesn't matter where they are.  It is rare for a first time head coach to get a job like Jason Kidd got with the Nets.  Erik Spoelstra walked into a pretty good situation as well.  Those are rarities.  The Kurt Rambis jobs in Minnesota are for more common for first time coaches. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Didn't we lose our home opener to he Bucks last year by double digits, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo on the team?  This on the heels of a blowout against the Heat?  Game 3 we played a good first quarter and were able to bsrely hang on against the Wizards who were being led by Jordan Crawford.  This team doesn't seem appreciably worse through 2 games than last year's mediocre squad, just going by on-court performance.

This is good point .....I  remember these huge let downs of Rivers and our stars .......the celtics were like Steve Nash today , always hurt and too old to run.   We just had Pierce to iso ball and win games at the end  after Doc would stink up the game with his  rotations

The Nets owner has dep pockets not to care about the fines or taxes .  He just spends till he Gets what he needs  to compete......basically trade us out of our two best players ....when he is already maxed out ......

[DesertDweller]

Didn't we lose our home opener to he Bucks last year by double digits, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo on the team?  This on the heels of a blowout against the Heat?  Game 3 we played a good first quarter and were able to bsrely hang on against the Wizards who were being led by Jordan Crawford.  This team doesn't seem appreciably worse through 2 games than last year's mediocre squad, just going by on-court performance.

I think I'm going to need a break from these forums for the season if this daily dissection of a mediocre squad continues.  You've all expected this all summer.  Few have disagreed with you.  The disagreements have been where on the spectrum between mediocre and abyssmal this team will be.  The rush to say "I was more right!" is absurd.

Totally agree. I think people want to choose what to remember with this team. If the Pistons beat them tonight some will forget how they had their way with us last year, with Kg, Pierce and Rondo playing.

And where exactly does this team stand with a solid win today over the Pistons???  then there would be the argument of, it's a fluke or we just took the day off from tanking!!!    answers only acceptable before game starts.

[LarBrd33]

just gotta have patience.  He's got a 6 year contract.  If we are still bottomfeeders 5 years from now, we can start worrying.  Until then, enjoy the deep dive.  Call me crazy, but I think we'll probably be a playoff team again before his contract runs out.  Danny tanked this season, but I think he will probably shift gears next year and start tryin to build a competent team. 

[feckless]

Didn't we lose our home opener to he Bucks last year by double digits, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo on the team?  This on the heels of a blowout against the Heat?  Game 3 we played a good first quarter and were able to bsrely hang on against the Wizards who were being led by Jordan Crawford.  This team doesn't seem appreciably worse through 2 games than last year's mediocre squad, just going by on-court performance.

I think I'm going to need a break from these forums for the season if this daily dissection of a mediocre squad continues.  You've all expected this all summer.  Few have disagreed with you.  The disagreements have been where on the spectrum between mediocre and abyssmal this team will be.  The rush to say "I was more right!" is absurd.

Totally agree. I think people want to choose what to remember with this team. If the Pistons beat them tonight some will forget how they had their way with us last year, with Kg, Pierce and Rondo playing.

And where exactly does this team stand with a solid win today over the Pistons???  then there would be the argument of, it's a fluke or we just took the day off from tanking!!!    answers only acceptable before game starts.

There's that hope raising it's ugly head again.  Do not hope--Danny made us intentionally bad.

[Snakehead]

too many Brad Stevens and Gerald Wallace threads for D.O.S to filibuster like he did to my original thread on these topics. Just had to mention that.

I made a post about the test to Brad brought by the statements by Wallace and D.O.S killed the thread by making numerous mocking posts. The thread was locked.

But now we have at least four different threads dealing with the issues I raised --- VINDICATION.

Oh man.  Vindication because others overreact?  Sure bud, sure.