Boston Globe questions Brad Stevens

[D.o.s.]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

[Moranis]

I just don't get anyone questioning Stevens with the crap that is the Boston Celtic's roster.  I think the "hate" is a result of people actually believing the Celtics would have an averageish team.  That was never going to be the case.  This roster is quite frankly garbage.  No one on this team would be starting on a contender.  Not a single player.  Frankly only 2 players would even be in the rotation of a contender and they play the same position (green & wallace).  The reality is, this team is just terrible and it was supposed to be.  Ainge is in the asset gathering phase, which includes landing a very high pick in the next draft.  Ainge will sell off anyone on the team for future picks or young prospects, and would have already moved Rondo if he had sufficient value (which he doesn't at the moment).  People just need to come to this conclusion and need to do so quickly so they aren't continually disappointed with the significant losses that will continue to mount.

[BballTim]

The other thing is like against the Bucks they were playing hero ball. But thats how they play it in the NBA when things get tight and when you don't have that go to guy your going to loose most of the time. Eventually they should learn to move the ball in the 4th like they do in the first 3 quarters.

No, that's not "how they play" in the NBA at all. Remember, we used to have a competent coach, who was able to call a TO, draw a play, and actually have the team at least attempt to execute it. Stevens hasn't been able to do neither of those three, and he had ample opportunity in 2 close games.

We use to have 3 to 4 players that could execute those plays on the whim because of their experience. They could go one on one, or execute a play.

Stevens doesn't have the personal on the floor right now to do it every time. He's also two games in, its going to take some time.

Also how many time out plays worked when the C's lost 22 straight when Doc was coaching?

Until Stevens has players he knows what he's going to get, or just plan knows the players he has now, its going to be a rough go. So buckle up!

This is all fine and dandy, but it doesn't excuse not having any at least decent set plays. You still have the guy you expect to carry the bulk of your scoring load (Green), and another guy that's a veteran with 10+ years of experience who figures to be a major piece in the rotation (Wallace), and you can't set up something for them to run? Is that the way top coaching looks in the NCAA? Glad I'm not wasting time watching that lower tier ball.

  By the same token, when last seen before this season this team was struggling to run anything against a mediocre Knicks defense despite having KG/PP/Jet instead of Wallace and one of the most highly regarded coaches in the league.

[feckless]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked? There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

[Moranis]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

You can't look for examples in part because the college coaches get bad jobs.  I mean they don't get jobs of teams that are realistic contenders.  I mean when you get a team with no talent, how can anyone expect you to win.

[feckless]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

You can't look for examples in part because the college coaches get bad jobs.  I mean they don't get jobs of teams that are realistic contenders.  I mean when you get a team with no talent, how can anyone expect you to win.

Yes it has always failed, if it is because good teams hire coaches with NBA experience, either as a player or at least as an assistant coach, it still means college coaches with no NBA experience have always failed as new NBA coaches.  Stevens is a sacrificial lamb but paid well and may someday get a 2nd opportunity, with experience.

[D.o.s.]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

Here's an article for you:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/22626163/college-coaches-to-nba-how-theyve-faired-the-past-20-years

Here's the roster of men who have gone straight from college head coaches to NBA head coaches since the 1993-94 season (* denotes first head NBA job):

Lon Kruger* (Illinois to Atlanta Hawks): 69-122 from 2000-03, no playoffs
Rick Pitino (Kentucky to Boston Celtics) 102-146 from 1997-2001, no playoffs
John Calipari* (UMass to New Jersey Nets): 72-112 from 1996-99, 0-3 in playoffs
Tim Floyd* (Iowa State to Chicago Bulls): 49-190 from 1998-2002, no playoffs
Mike Montgomery* (Stanford to Golden State Warriors): 68-96 from 2004-06, no playoffs
P.J. Carlesimo* (Seton Hall to Portland Trail Blazers): 136-109 from 1994-97, 3-9 in playoffs
Reggie Theus* (New Mexico State to Sacramento Kings): 44-62 from 2007-09, no playoffs
Leonard Hamilton* (Miami Hurricanes to Washington Wizards): 19-63 in 2000-01, no playoffs

The collective record and winning percentage: 559-900 (.383) with a 3-12 playoff record over 22 seasons.

Carlesimo went on to have a pretty solid coaching career--he definitely did wonders for that Nets team in the second half of last year.

Pitino was a bust, obviously, but he was also sabotaging himself as a GM.

Most of those guys lasted a couple years, didn't make the playoffs, got canned, and went back to college.

I don't think Stevens is under the same kind of pressure from the ownership and front office. At least, not yet.


But mostly, "X is true, therefore X will always be true" is brutally shortsighted, and borderline fallacious thinking. Especially in a game like basketball.

[feckless]

Too many people here drinking Danny's kool-aid!

[D.o.s.]

Too many people here drinking Danny's kool-aid!

A convincing counter-point.

Don't you have a WEEI call to make?

[feckless]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

Here's an article for you:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/22626163/college-coaches-to-nba-how-theyve-faired-the-past-20-years

Here's the roster of men who have gone straight from college head coaches to NBA head coaches since the 1993-94 season (* denotes first head NBA job):

Lon Kruger* (Illinois to Atlanta Hawks): 69-122 from 2000-03, no playoffs
Rick Pitino (Kentucky to Boston Celtics) 102-146 from 1997-2001, no playoffs
John Calipari* (UMass to New Jersey Nets): 72-112 from 1996-99, 0-3 in playoffs
Tim Floyd* (Iowa State to Chicago Bulls): 49-190 from 1998-2002, no playoffs
Mike Montgomery* (Stanford to Golden State Warriors): 68-96 from 2004-06, no playoffs
P.J. Carlesimo* (Seton Hall to Portland Trail Blazers): 136-109 from 1994-97, 3-9 in playoffs
Reggie Theus* (New Mexico State to Sacramento Kings): 44-62 from 2007-09, no playoffs
Leonard Hamilton* (Miami Hurricanes to Washington Wizards): 19-63 in 2000-01, no playoffs

The collective record and winning percentage: 559-900 (.383) with a 3-12 playoff record over 22 seasons.

Carlesimo went on to have a pretty solid coaching career--he definitely did wonders for that Nets team in the second half of last year.

Pitino was a bust, obviously, but he was also sabotaging himself as a GM.

Most of those guys lasted a couple years, didn't make the playoffs, got canned, and went back to college.

I don't think Stevens is under the same kind of pressure from the ownership and front office. At least, not yet.


But mostly, "X is true, therefore X will always be true" is brutally shortsighted, and borderline fallacious thinking. Especially in a game like basketball.

In this case with the team they gave Stevens, X will always be true, shortsighted or not, with no fallacy to that idea.  (sorry but I have to say it)  no Truth equals misery for Stevens and the C's --  As disloyalty at that level should.

[Ogaju]

too many Brad Stevens and Gerald Wallace threads for D.O.S to filibuster like he did to my original thread on these topics. Just had to mention that.

I made a post about the test to Brad brought by the statements by Wallace and D.O.S killed the thread by making numerous mocking posts. The thread was locked.

But now we have at least four different threads dealing with the issues I raised --- VINDICATION.

[D.o.s.]

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

When was the last time a young college coach with no NBA experience was successful in the NBA?

Let's see there was ? and also ?.

Stevens was hired to contribute to the tank, and paid handsomely for the opportunity.

In this case, absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence.

I disagree, seems to me it has been tried before and I want to know when has it worked. There is plenty of evidence that it does not work.  What is the basis for any realistic expectation that Stevens will be successful with the Celtics.  He overachieved with Butler for a couple of years??  Is that it?  He is young and enthusiastic?  He is smart?  I just do not get it.

Here's an article for you:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/22626163/college-coaches-to-nba-how-theyve-faired-the-past-20-years

Here's the roster of men who have gone straight from college head coaches to NBA head coaches since the 1993-94 season (* denotes first head NBA job):

Lon Kruger* (Illinois to Atlanta Hawks): 69-122 from 2000-03, no playoffs
Rick Pitino (Kentucky to Boston Celtics) 102-146 from 1997-2001, no playoffs
John Calipari* (UMass to New Jersey Nets): 72-112 from 1996-99, 0-3 in playoffs
Tim Floyd* (Iowa State to Chicago Bulls): 49-190 from 1998-2002, no playoffs
Mike Montgomery* (Stanford to Golden State Warriors): 68-96 from 2004-06, no playoffs
P.J. Carlesimo* (Seton Hall to Portland Trail Blazers): 136-109 from 1994-97, 3-9 in playoffs
Reggie Theus* (New Mexico State to Sacramento Kings): 44-62 from 2007-09, no playoffs
Leonard Hamilton* (Miami Hurricanes to Washington Wizards): 19-63 in 2000-01, no playoffs

The collective record and winning percentage: 559-900 (.383) with a 3-12 playoff record over 22 seasons.

Carlesimo went on to have a pretty solid coaching career--he definitely did wonders for that Nets team in the second half of last year.

Pitino was a bust, obviously, but he was also sabotaging himself as a GM.

Most of those guys lasted a couple years, didn't make the playoffs, got canned, and went back to college.

I don't think Stevens is under the same kind of pressure from the ownership and front office. At least, not yet.


But mostly, "X is true, therefore X will always be true" is brutally shortsighted, and borderline fallacious thinking. Especially in a game like basketball.

In this case with the team they gave Stevens X will always be true shortsighted or not, (sorry but I have to say it)  no Truth equals misery for Stevens and the C's.

That's true--our roster is definitely not a contender.

But assuming our roster is in flux, why wouldn't Stevens be able to find success with a more talented team?

too many Brad Stevens and Gerald Wallace threads for D.O.S to filibuster like he did to my original thread on these topics. Just had to mention that.

I made a post about the test to Brad brought by the statements by Wallace and D.O.S killed the thread by making numerous mocking posts. The thread was locked.

But now we have at least four different threads dealing with the issues I raised --- VINDICATION.

I wasn't actually trying to get that thread closed--just having fun.

I maintain that Stevens should head to a hair salon and get some vintage Darko Frosted Tips.

[get_banners]

this is all hilarious. don't most people want us to tank? yet the knives are out? also, as many have noted, we have a bunch of new players, and given that this is a "development" season, i see no issue in stevens trying out some new things/rotations. its not like the spurs refusing to play robinson or us benching our "good" players during key moments in 1996-97 on a team where we knew what we had. i do wish brooks would get some more burn...but...we're 2 games in. i'm  going to avoid lighting my hair on fire.

[feckless]

this is all hilarious. don't most people want us to tank? yet the knives are out? also, as many have noted, we have a bunch of new players, and given that this is a "development" season, i see no issue in stevens trying out some new things/rotations. its not like the spurs refusing to play robinson or us benching our "good" players during key moments in 1996-97 on a team where we knew what we had. i do wish brooks would get some more burn...but...we're 2 games in. i'm  going to avoid lighting my hair on fire.

You are making excuses and implying the possibility of hope for this team--you need to say it.....Danny wants to lose, Brad Stevens was hired to lose..there is no hope, in the foreseeable future!  The rest of the NBA sees us as the new Cavaliers.  Say it out loud, if you can, and then say thanks  Danny!

[kozlodoev]

By the same token, when last seen before this season this team was struggling to run anything against a mediocre Knicks defense despite having KG/PP/Jet instead of Wallace and one of the most highly regarded coaches in the league.

That's the point, it's not by the same token. There's a difference between struggling to run your stuff and not running any stuff. Last year's team knew exactly what they were running, they just couldn't run it very well (age, injuries, you name it). This year's team has no clue.