Author Topic: We really are tanking  (Read 33671 times)

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Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2013, 08:15:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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We are not tanking. We just suck. Big difference.

Tanking means making a conscious effort to lose games that the team would otherwise have a chance to win. This team hasn't done this. They are just bad.

And they are bad because management made the decision to get bad to rid themselves of age, acquire future assets and to shed salary to save money.


Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2013, 08:31:33 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Also for those thinking a high draft pick this year will turn things around with Rondo, I have some good advise. Be patient because we are years and years away from Rondo and some high pick from this year's draft turning this team around.

Years.

And there isn't even a guarantee of that it will happen then. Never mind top picks, even Rookies of the Year have trouble turning teams around. Just ask people in Charlotte, Sacramento, Memphis, and Orlando how their recent ROY's turned around their clubs. Ask people in Minnesota, Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, and other cities how being bad and having lots of 1st round picks for years on end can end up.

Danny will need to make a lot of savy, intelligent and correct moves to make this team even competitive over the next 3 years or so, never mind good.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2013, 08:54:10 PM »

Offline chambers

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A few of us have been advocating this all along.
For Ainge to not go out and get any replacement free agents like Millsap or Josh Smith after KG and Pierce were gone was step one.

The off season came and went and plenty of solid role players were available- he avoided all of them- particularly at areas of need.

I truly believe this roster is rigged to lose more than it will win.
I sound like a broken record but the keys to the roster tank are:

*Pathetic NBA centre caliber front line- we don't have any size at the 5 spot. We are completely loaded at the PF/4 and have one dude from overseas and Kris Humphries manning the middle.

*Pathetic cast of shooters to surround Rondo- I mean jumpshots within 15 feet AND three point shooters.

*A rookie head coach with ZERO NBA experience. Nada. Zilch. Squat.

Absolutely nothing was done to improve the roster, and Ainge purposely avoided signing anyone that may help us win a few more games.
He wants to develop the trade assets we have- because that's what they are.


Ainge recently said something about needing a top 5 player to win an NBA championship. To me, there are 3 ways to get a top 5 player, and these are Ainge's options..

1) Create cap space and compete with the rest of the NBA with that cap room to lure a free agent top 5 player.

2) Develop and trade 'promising' assets to acquire that top 5 player- as we did with KG.

3) Draft the player yourself before anyone else.

What's crucial to number 1 is having the pieces in place to lure that top 5 guy. He has a choice to go where ever he wants.
Unfortunately all we have is Rondo- which is a great piece...but is it enough? I think we need another All Star player with Rondo to lure someone like Durant.
The second problem is that finding even that second All Star guy is going to be hard- if he makes it to free agency there will be other teams willing to overpay for him ie Josh Smith, Al Jefferson.

So now we are also looking at option 2, which means you need to try and trade for him and ensure that the team he's currently with is willing to trade for him.

Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

I don't think Rondo is that top 5-10 guy. I think Ainge knows this and understands that he's somewhere around the 25-30 mark now that KG and Pierce are gone. That 25-30 mark however is definitely good enough to be the 3rd option, or at least share being the number 2 option on a championship team ie Chris Bosh on the Heat, Ginobli (who has been replaced by Leonard) on the Spurs, Bynum on the Lakers.

I believe that Ainge will basically do what he's done before. He wants two more All Star guys-one of whom is a top 5-10 guy in the NBA. Just like Ray and KG were. We were lucky with Pierce that he was a top 10 guy. I think Rondo would be more like the 2008 Ray Allen if we won another championship with Rondo on the roster- he'd be a floor leader, but he'd be our 3rd best player.

So what will Ainge do? The same thing he did last time. Has he done this?
Has he..

1) Developed/developing solid trade assets ?  Bass, Bradley, Sully, Vitor (already looking great). CHECK

2) Acquired a lottery pick? It doesn't matter if you think we are tanking or not. We are rebuilding with one All Star who's injured. We should be expecting a top 12 pick at the very worst.
This pick doesn't have to be drafted by us. The point is that it's an asset, and the beauty of it is that we can pick the player if there's someone Ainge likes, or we can pick a player that someone else likes and use that as a trade asset. It's win/win situation.
CHECK. (well some people think we'll make the playoffs but I'll use my own opinion here are say at worst we are getting a top 8-10 pick).

3) Cleared cap room?
Well he's got a few options. I'm not a cap expert by any means but with Humphries 12 million expiring deal and Bradley, Crawford and Brooks all on non guaranteed deals I believe we can use their combined 7 million in salary in a move for a star.
Problem of course is G Wallace at 10 million for the next 3 seasons. Lee at 4.5 million over 3 more years hurts too. Bass is at 6 million is a nice trade asset though.
We also have a $10 million trade exception for Pierce that expires Christmas 2014.

Eerm. Not Checked off yet. Work in progress?

So if we can't trade these crappy contracts then I guess the draft may be our go to option?


All I know is that Ainge will be preparing for all 3 options and readying us to use whichever one we need at the time- when the right opportunity presents itself. To maximize that opportunity though, he has strategically set up a roster that will lose games whilst creating value in mediocre players and younger/developing asset players.
To be prepared to make a move for a star, a top 10 draft pick is a MUST HAVE. That is why we are 'tanking'.

I'm also wrestling with the notion that Stephens may have been told to try out different line ups- particularly late in close games against teams that we would be considered a fair chance to beat (or add to our win record). Why Green was not thrown back in against Toronto is beyond me. I'll watch half a season before I decide on the 'throwing games' kind of tank, but to me Ainge has undoubtedly bettered our long term chances of success by sacrificing this season.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2013, 09:07:08 PM »

Offline chambers

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We are not tanking. We just suck. Big difference.

Tanking means making a conscious effort to lose games that the team would otherwise have a chance to win. This team hasn't done this. They are just bad.

And they are bad because management made the decision to get bad to rid themselves of age, acquire future assets and to shed salary to save money.

So tanking is only if the coach throws games?
What about management throwing games to ensure a better draft position?

If the GM does it, it's just 'rebuilding', if the coach does it, it's tanking?

I don't agree with this.
'Tanking' should be associated with an organization the second they don't do everything in their power to put the best possible team out on the floor, every night.
Of course the long term interests of the franchise should be considered alongside the short term.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't use that strategy- I just hate when people scream 'we're not tanking- we just suck'.

Yeah we suck because we are tanking- we are designed that way.
That's just my opinion.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2013, 09:30:14 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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Also for those thinking a high draft pick this year will turn things around with Rondo, I have some good advise. Be patient because we are years and years away from Rondo and some high pick from this year's draft turning this team around.

Years.

And there isn't even a guarantee of that it will happen then. Never mind top picks, even Rookies of the Year have trouble turning teams around. Just ask people in Charlotte, Sacramento, Memphis, and Orlando how their recent ROY's turned around their clubs. Ask people in Minnesota, Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, and other cities how being bad and having lots of 1st round picks for years on end can end up.

Danny will need to make a lot of savy, intelligent and correct moves to make this team even competitive over the next 3 years or so, never mind good.

Worked pretty well for the Cavs. And Charlotte, Minnesota, and up until recently Toronto have horrible HORRIBLE GMs.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2013, 09:46:15 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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Also for those thinking a high draft pick this year will turn things around with Rondo, I have some good advise. Be patient because we are years and years away from Rondo and some high pick from this year's draft turning this team around.

Years.

And there isn't even a guarantee of that it will happen then. Never mind top picks, even Rookies of the Year have trouble turning teams around. Just ask people in Charlotte, Sacramento, Memphis, and Orlando how their recent ROY's turned around their clubs. Ask people in Minnesota, Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, and other cities how being bad and having lots of 1st round picks for years on end can end up.

Danny will need to make a lot of savy, intelligent and correct moves to make this team even competitive over the next 3 years or so, never mind good.

Worked pretty well for the Cavs. And Charlotte, Minnesota, and up until recently Toronto have horrible HORRIBLE GMs.

It worked well for Charlotte and Minnesota? I guess you can say Kevin Love for Minnesota, but how long have they been bottom-dwellers and mostly irrelevant?
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2013, 10:47:11 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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A few of us have been advocating this all along.
For Ainge to not go out and get any replacement free agents like Millsap or Josh Smith after KG and Pierce were gone was step one.

The off season came and went and plenty of solid role players were available- he avoided all of them- particularly at areas of need.

I truly believe this roster is rigged to lose more than it will win.
I sound like a broken record but the keys to the roster tank are:

*Pathetic NBA centre caliber front line- we don't have any size at the 5 spot. We are completely loaded at the PF/4 and have one dude from overseas and Kris Humphries manning the middle.

*Pathetic cast of shooters to surround Rondo- I mean jumpshots within 15 feet AND three point shooters.

*A rookie head coach with ZERO NBA experience. Nada. Zilch. Squat.

Absolutely nothing was done to improve the roster, and Ainge purposely avoided signing anyone that may help us win a few more games.
He wants to develop the trade assets we have- because that's what they are.


Ainge recently said something about needing a top 5 player to win an NBA championship. To me, there are 3 ways to get a top 5 player, and these are Ainge's options..

1) Create cap space and compete with the rest of the NBA with that cap room to lure a free agent top 5 player.

2) Develop and trade 'promising' assets to acquire that top 5 player- as we did with KG.

3) Draft the player yourself before anyone else.

What's crucial to number 1 is having the pieces in place to lure that top 5 guy. He has a choice to go where ever he wants.
Unfortunately all we have is Rondo- which is a great piece...but is it enough? I think we need another All Star player with Rondo to lure someone like Durant.
The second problem is that finding even that second All Star guy is going to be hard- if he makes it to free agency there will be other teams willing to overpay for him ie Josh Smith, Al Jefferson.

So now we are also looking at option 2, which means you need to try and trade for him and ensure that the team he's currently with is willing to trade for him.

Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

I don't think Rondo is that top 5-10 guy. I think Ainge knows this and understands that he's somewhere around the 25-30 mark now that KG and Pierce are gone. That 25-30 mark however is definitely good enough to be the 3rd option, or at least share being the number 2 option on a championship team ie Chris Bosh on the Heat, Ginobli (who has been replaced by Leonard) on the Spurs, Bynum on the Lakers.

I believe that Ainge will basically do what he's done before. He wants two more All Star guys-one of whom is a top 5-10 guy in the NBA. Just like Ray and KG were. We were lucky with Pierce that he was a top 10 guy. I think Rondo would be more like the 2008 Ray Allen if we won another championship with Rondo on the roster- he'd be a floor leader, but he'd be our 3rd best player.

So what will Ainge do? The same thing he did last time. Has he done this?
Has he..

1) Developed/developing solid trade assets ?  Bass, Bradley, Sully, Vitor (already looking great). CHECK

2) Acquired a lottery pick? It doesn't matter if you think we are tanking or not. We are rebuilding with one All Star who's injured. We should be expecting a top 12 pick at the very worst.
This pick doesn't have to be drafted by us. The point is that it's an asset, and the beauty of it is that we can pick the player if there's someone Ainge likes, or we can pick a player that someone else likes and use that as a trade asset. It's win/win situation.
CHECK. (well some people think we'll make the playoffs but I'll use my own opinion here are say at worst we are getting a top 8-10 pick).

3) Cleared cap room?
Well he's got a few options. I'm not a cap expert by any means but with Humphries 12 million expiring deal and Bradley, Crawford and Brooks all on non guaranteed deals I believe we can use their combined 7 million in salary in a move for a star.
Problem of course is G Wallace at 10 million for the next 3 seasons. Lee at 4.5 million over 3 more years hurts too. Bass is at 6 million is a nice trade asset though.
We also have a $10 million trade exception for Pierce that expires Christmas 2014.

Eerm. Not Checked off yet. Work in progress?

So if we can't trade these crappy contracts then I guess the draft may be our go to option?


All I know is that Ainge will be preparing for all 3 options and readying us to use whichever one we need at the time- when the right opportunity presents itself. To maximize that opportunity though, he has strategically set up a roster that will lose games whilst creating value in mediocre players and younger/developing asset players.
To be prepared to make a move for a star, a top 10 draft pick is a MUST HAVE. That is why we are 'tanking'.

I'm also wrestling with the notion that Stephens may have been told to try out different line ups- particularly late in close games against teams that we would be considered a fair chance to beat (or add to our win record). Why Green was not thrown back in against Toronto is beyond me. I'll watch half a season before I decide on the 'throwing games' kind of tank, but to me Ainge has undoubtedly bettered our long term chances of success by sacrificing this season.


How were the Celtics going to get Josh Smith or Millsap?

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2013, 11:59:28 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Also for those thinking a high draft pick this year will turn things around with Rondo, I have some good advise. Be patient because we are years and years away from Rondo and some high pick from this year's draft turning this team around.

Years.

And there isn't even a guarantee of that it will happen then. Never mind top picks, even Rookies of the Year have trouble turning teams around. Just ask people in Charlotte, Sacramento, Memphis, and Orlando how their recent ROY's turned around their clubs. Ask people in Minnesota, Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, and other cities how being bad and having lots of 1st round picks for years on end can end up.

Danny will need to make a lot of savy, intelligent and correct moves to make this team even competitive over the next 3 years or so, never mind good.

Worked pretty well for the Cavs. And Charlotte, Minnesota, and up until recently Toronto have horrible HORRIBLE GMs.

I'm not sure that I'd use Cleveland as a shining example of good management.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2013, 12:04:23 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2013, 12:27:21 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

Considering Kobe never played for a team other than the Lakers and he was out of high school (thus the lower draft position), what you say is a bit misleading. Not many players are going to refuse to play for the team that drafts them.

Between Duncan, Kobe, and Wade, that is a large percentage of recent titles.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2013, 12:30:53 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

Considering Kobe never played for a team other than the Lakers and he was out of high school (thus the lower draft position), what you say is a bit misleading. Not many players are going to refuse to play for the team that drafts them.

Between Duncan, Kobe, and Wade, that is a large percentage of recent titles.

Edit: I can't read.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2013, 04:11:33 AM »

Offline chambers

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 04:19:37 AM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2013, 04:26:39 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)

Seeing a pattern?
Ainge tanked this season, but it's definitely for the best.  I just want to see us get a top 8 pick.  We have a pretty good track record with top 8 picks.  Here's every Top 8 pick we've kept since 1970:

1970 - #4 Dave Cowens
1978 - #6 Larry Bird
1980 - #3 Kevin McHale
1986 - #2 Len Bias
1996 - #6 Antoine Walker
1997 - #3 Chancey Billups

With the exception of Bias, they all went on to have pretty solid careers.  They were all all-stars in their prime.

Of course, 2006 was an awful draft so we traded away the #7 pick for a scrub (Sebastian Telfair), but Danny made up for it by stealing Rondo later in that draft with #21.

Of course in 2007 we traded away the #5 pick for 1/3rd of a 2008 Championship.

That's all I want to see... let's bottom out in this huge draft class and get a Top 8 pick.  I figure we'll do pretty good with a Top 8 pick.


Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #88 on: November 03, 2013, 05:43:00 AM »

Offline Casperian

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So tanking is only if the coach throws games?
What about management throwing games to ensure a better draft position?

If the GM does it, it's just 'rebuilding', if the coach does it, it's tanking?

No.

Danny isn´t throwing games, he´s just trying to build a contender. We don´t hang banners for ECFs. That takes patience. You´re certainly not winning a title by simply throwing money at the problem in a league with a salary cap by signing the Josh Smith´s of this world to long-term contracts.

There were reports last summer that Danny made an offer for Dwight Howard. He signed the most succesful young college coach in the history of the NCAA to a 6-year contract. So far, he kept everyone on the team except KG and Pierce. It´s hardly his fault these guys have reached the tail end of their careers.

Right now, we simply have to see where this is going, how guys develop, who can step up, wait for the right player to become available, and position us for the time when he does, even if that includes a Raef/Ratliff sideways move.

It´s easy to say "These are our assets, and we´re planning to trade them for a starplayer", but what if the other team doesn´t want your assets? How could anyone of us, including Danny, plan to trade Sully, Olynyk, Bradley or whoever for a star if we don´t even know these guys` value when said star becomes available?

The real issue here is that we´re all obsessing over this team way too much. With the internet, and 24/7 sports coverage, we´ve become used to analyze every little detail, even if there aren´t any new ones. Simply put, we´ve run out of stuff to talk about, and are now reiterating the same things over and over again.

That doesn´t change the very basic fact that there´s a season to be played, that 15 guys are under contract, and that it takes patience until the next step materializes.

Contrary to popular belief, the FO can´t simply go out there and "do something" to bring us #18. This would include so many things beyond our control, like getting a high pick (draft), having a star decide to want to play for you (free agency), or when his team wants to trade him (trade market), that it simply doesn´t make sense to build your masterplan around it.

That´s not a strategy, that´s hope. Srategies are built around what you know, what you have, and what you can do, not stuff that might or might not happen.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:49:42 AM by Casperian »
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #89 on: November 03, 2013, 09:43:32 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Also for those thinking a high draft pick this year will turn things around with Rondo, I have some good advise. Be patient because we are years and years away from Rondo and some high pick from this year's draft turning this team around.

Years.

And there isn't even a guarantee of that it will happen then. Never mind top picks, even Rookies of the Year have trouble turning teams around. Just ask people in Charlotte, Sacramento, Memphis, and Orlando how their recent ROY's turned around their clubs. Ask people in Minnesota, Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, and other cities how being bad and having lots of 1st round picks for years on end can end up.

Danny will need to make a lot of savy, intelligent and correct moves to make this team even competitive over the next 3 years or so, never mind good.

Worked pretty well for the Cavs. And Charlotte, Minnesota, and up until recently Toronto have horrible HORRIBLE GMs.
If the Cavs are an example of a good team then I'm done with the NBA.
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