Author Topic: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.  (Read 5732 times)

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I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« on: October 22, 2013, 04:01:55 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 I was thinking from the get go that they are two of our best players why mot start them both. So glad Brad is the type of coach that will at least try some different thinking.

Wallace/Green combo gets extended look
October, 21, 2013
OCT 21
3:33
PM ET
By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com
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Ron Turenne/Getty Images
Jeff Green and Gerald Wallace shared the floor for an extended stretch Sunday.
For much of the preseason we've been intrigued by the possible lineup combination of Jeff Green and Gerald Wallace, but haven't seen it much. The two are both natural small forwards and, this time of year, are more likely to back each other up than play together. But coach Brad Stevens gave the pairing its longest run of the exhibition season Sunday night against the Minnesota Timberwolves in Montreal to encouraging results.

The NBA doesn't track preseason lineup data in its available stats package, but by our very unscientific count, Green and Wallace shared the floor for a total of 14 minutes, 35 seconds on Sunday, including an 8 ½-minute glimpse to start the second half. The results?

Boston was plus-5 with the Green/Wallace combo on the floor, outscoring the Timberwolves 35-30. The Celtics shot 50 percent (13 of 26 overall) from the floor with 14 rebounds, five assists, three steals, a block and two turnovers (not bad when you consider that means Boston shot 33.3 percent when the duo was not on the floor together). Minnesota shot 42.9 percent (9 of 21 overall) with 11 rebounds, seven assists, one steal, four blocks, and five turnovers.

The Celtics mixed the personnel around the duo, pairing them with Avery Bradley, Brandon Bass, and Jared Sullinger to start the second half. That left Green often attempting to defend smaller guards and Boston was just plus-1 over the first 8:21 of the second half.

Where Boston enjoyed its most success with the combo was as a sub lineup in the first quarter. Green subbed for Bass with 6:21 to play in the frame (while rookie Kelly Olynyk replaced Courtney Lee) leaving the group on the floor with Bradley and Sullinger. The Celtics were down 18-7 at the initial substitution, but went on an 11-2 burst over the first two minutes to briefly make it a one-possession game.

Is the Green/Wallace lineup sustainable? Given that Green is supposed to be Boston's go-to guy and Wallace has been among the league leaders in minutes during his career, the two should naturally overlap on the floor despite playing the same position. We need to see more of the pair together, and with different players around them, to know if and how it can truly thrive.

But it sounds like we'll most definitely see more of the combo.

“I’d have to look at the overall numbers on it, but I thought we were pretty good in that stretch -- both in the first half and [to open] the second half," Stevens told reporters in Montreal. “We played them together some in the first half where we played big on the wings, and we played them some together at the start of the second half. It’s probably a 10- or 12-minute clip of that. And, based on how it went tonight, I would say that you’ll probably see that again."

For a Celtics team with an non-ideal mix of players -- including logjams at the shooting guard and power forward spots -- being creative with their most talented players will be key to being competitive. While Green has slumped for much of the preseason, he's shown more aggression lately and has said in the past that playing with Wallace intrigues him. Wallace, who took the second night of a pair of preseason back-to-backs off, has been one of Boston's most consistent performers when he's on the floor, especially in terms of bringing energy and effort.

For one game at least, it was an encouraging takeaway from an effort thin on positives.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2013, 04:34:50 AM »

Offline Galeto

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I'm glad Stevens is doing this.  There is no difference between guards and small forwards.  If there is, it's marginal.  The athleticism needed to guard "small forwards" is no different from the athleticism needed to defend "guards."  I'm absolutely certain there is no play in the playbook that requires a 2-guard to run around screens or something.  If Green and Wallace are the wings, they'll just each play their game.  More than positions, it's about having the right skillsets on the floor or creating mismatches.

Neither Green or Wallace are all that dynamic offensively against small forwards.  Both have required an advantage to be at their best offensively.  At power forward, it's quickness.  At guard, it can be size and strength.  Wallace is pretty outstanding posting up guards.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 07:15:53 AM »

Offline clover

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I'm glad Stevens is doing this.  There is no difference between guards and small forwards.  If there is, it's marginal.  The athleticism needed to guard "small forwards" is no different from the athleticism needed to defend "guards."  I'm absolutely certain there is no play in the playbook that requires a 2-guard to run around screens or something.  If Green and Wallace are the wings, they'll just each play their game.  More than positions, it's about having the right skillsets on the floor or creating mismatches.

Neither Green or Wallace are all that dynamic offensively against small forwards.  Both have required an advantage to be at their best offensively.  At power forward, it's quickness.  At guard, it can be size and strength.  Wallace is pretty outstanding posting up guards.

I think the combo is a sensible thing for Stevens to play as much as he can get away with it. The issue IMO will be Green's ability to guard quick 2's, however--and that should limit the matchups for which it works.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 08:12:49 AM »

Offline Section301

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I agree that it's worth a shot, for a number of reason, some of which revolve around giving them both sufficient playing time to increase their perceived trade value, some of which revolve around it opening up more time at the 4 spot for the rookies. 

That said, Green and Pierce started at the 2 and 3 for the latter part of last season and the playoffs, so I'm not sure this is necessarily a sign of Brad Stevens employing 'different thinking.'
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Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 08:21:35 AM »

Online Who

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I wish they'd drop Bass from the rotation and play G-Wallace at (backup) PF instead.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 08:24:15 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Add olynyk and one of sully/fav upfronf and ab as temp pg and now you got something to work with. The bad would be we have no backup sf coming off the bench

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 08:41:25 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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we have no backup sf coming off the bench

Why not Lee or Bogans?

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 09:39:54 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Stevens has nothing but backups  to choose from at the moment. And some development rookies.

In few years ,crunch time for his contract ,  we see how he does with a few better players to put out on the court.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:53:43 AM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 10:17:49 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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we have no backup sf coming off the bench

Why not Lee or Bogans?

6'4,6'5 sfs are rarely successful in the nba. Though i guess bogans is pretty strong to be able to play some min as a backup

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 10:40:20 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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are rarely successful in the nba

It ought to be obvious that being successful this year was not on the agenda.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 12:49:54 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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He's getting closer to the lineup I wanted...

Bradley
Wallace
Green
Sullinger
Humphries

With Olynyk, Faverani, Bass, Crawford, & Lee off the bench.

Coach Stevens talked a lot about using the 'versatility' of the team.  For me, that includes using guys like Wallace at the 2, & Bass at the 3.

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 02:25:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Humph has not done much or played that well.  He is gone.  We are not going to win this year regardless of lineup so scratch Humph ( play him to raise his value) but also give minutes to Fav and Oly at the five to get them experience.   

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 01:45:49 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Humph has not done much or played that well.  He is gone.  We are not going to win this year regardless of lineup so scratch Humph ( play him to raise his value) but also give minutes to Fav and Oly at the five to get them experience.

Where did he go ?  Who did we get back in trade ?  Any picks ?

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 03:05:25 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Humph has not done much or played that well.  He is gone.  We are not going to win this year regardless of lineup so scratch Humph ( play him to raise his value) but also give minutes to Fav and Oly at the five to get them experience.

Naa, Hump is going to lead this team in rebounds. 

And Brad isn't going to roll over either, expect him to squeeze everything possible out of these scrubs. 

Re: I love that Stevens is going to try this Lineup.
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2013, 05:05:58 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I'm glad Stevens is doing this.  There is no difference between guards and small forwards.  If there is, it's marginal.  The athleticism needed to guard "small forwards" is no different from the athleticism needed to defend "guards."  I'm absolutely certain there is no play in the playbook that requires a 2-guard to run around screens or something.  If Green and Wallace are the wings, they'll just each play their game.  More than positions, it's about having the right skillsets on the floor or creating mismatches.

Neither Green or Wallace are all that dynamic offensively against small forwards.  Both have required an advantage to be at their best offensively.  At power forward, it's quickness.  At guard, it can be size and strength.  Wallace is pretty outstanding posting up guards.

I think the combo is a sensible thing for Stevens to play as much as he can get away with it. The issue IMO will be Green's ability to guard quick 2's, however--and that should limit the matchups for which it works.

the point on green guarding quick sg is valid. the solutions might include:

1. dont put green in against really quick sg. that is, play the matchup well to ameliorate green's lack of relative speed.

2. post green up every chance you get. very, very few sg could defend green if he posts up.

it will be a long season so i expect to see almost every celtic combo possible.
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