Author Topic: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20  (Read 45269 times)

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Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #150 on: October 20, 2013, 09:27:38 PM »

Offline timobusa

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Sullinger has tailed off in the past two or so games, but he was probably the best player during the first half of preseason.  He's firing those 3s because Stevens told him to take them.
Not sure who told you that. Unless there's confirmation, I will consider it exactly as likely that he's taking them because he's chosen to lurk on the perimeter for the most part of half-court possessions.

Also, I've got no idea where you're getting the "first half of the season" part. Sullinger has now played in  games, and 4 or 5 of them have been stinkers. He strung 2 good games together in the middle of the preseason, but that's about it.

This has to stop. Start Olynyk now.

There were reports in the past week that Stevens told KO and Sully to take wide open 3's when they have it.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #151 on: October 20, 2013, 09:45:32 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Sullinger is not shooting those threes with confidence, which leads me to believe it's Stevens who is telling him to take them.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #152 on: October 20, 2013, 09:57:03 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Not sure who told you that. Unless there's confirmation, I will consider it exactly as likely that he's taking them because he's chosen to lurk on the perimeter for the most part of half-court possessions.

Stevens himself told me that - on multiple occasions:

Quote from: Tim MacLean
Stevens on Sully's 3's: "He needs to keep shooting them because he'll make them. All of our guys have to shoot them more freely."

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/10/20/4860230/celtics-fall-to-love-and-the-timberwolves-89-104

Quote from: Mark Murphy
The deep shooting abilities of Celtics big men like Kelly Olynyk and Vitor Faverani considered, Stevens is encouraging open threes. He may not have hit against the Knicks, but even Jared Sullinger launched a pair of bombs Wednesday night.
"One thing I heard him say to Kelly and Sullinger on the bench - he yelled at them, actually - don't ever pass up an open three," said Avery Bradley. "He wants us to take open, smart shots. I think we're going to shoot a lot of threes this year, considering that we have a lot of stretch fours on this team."

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/celtics_insider/2013/10/celts_try_to_spread_the_floor

Quote
Also, I've got no idea where you're getting the "first half of the season" part. Sullinger has now played in  games, and 4 or 5 of them have been stinkers. He strung 2 good games together in the middle of the preseason, but that's about it.

WHAT? There is absolutely no way you've watched these preseason games - and paid close attention - and came to the conclusion that Sullinger has been bad far more than he's been good.

Quote from: Mark Murphy
He’s the Celtics’ leading scorer (12.8 ppg) and rebounder (6.5 rpg). He was slightly more subdued last night with 12 points and five rebounds during the team’s first win of the preseason under Stevens, beating the Knicks, 111-81. But for those wondering about the best Celtic during the four games of this preseason, it is quite possibly the same guy who said he wasn’t "close" on the first day of training camp.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/10/sullinger_rebounds_on_pure_instinct

Quote from: Jay King
During media day, when Sullinger called himself "not close" to proper basketball shape, I figured he would struggle at least to begin the preseason. Instead, wearing an extra layer of blubber, he's playing like Boston's best healthy player, a great sign for the 21-year old coming off season-ending back surgery.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2013/10/boston_celtics_mailbag.html

Game 1 vs. TOR: 19:58 min, 14 points on 5-11 shooting, 6 reb, 4 ast, 0 TO
Game 2 vs. NYK: 16:06 min, 6 points on 3-7 shooting, 6 reb, 0 ast, 0 TO
Game 3 vs. PHI: 23:14 min, 19 points on 7-15 shooting, 9 reb, 1 ast, 3 TO
Game 4 vs. NYK: 22:26 min, 12 points on 3-5 shooting, 5 reb, 1 ast, 1 TO

Amazing numbers? No.  But compare that to Olynyk who supposedly "needs" to start, presumably over Sullinger:

Game 1 vs. TOR: 18:49 min, 4 points on 1-5 shooting, 2 reb, 5 ast, 3 TO
Game 2 vs. NYK: 17:23 min, 4 points on 2-5 shooting, 1 reb, 1 ast, 4 TO
Game 3 vs. PHI: 25:26 min, 13 points on 6-16 shooting, 2 reb, 1 ast, 2 TO
Game 4 vs. NYK: 25:01 min, 15 points on 5-6 shooting, 6 reb, 3 ast, 1 TO

And if you bother to look at the rest of the team's numbers, you'll see that Sullinger's are easily among the most impressive across the first few games, becoming notably worse after Game 4.  It's just likely his lack of conditioning has finally caught up to him, hence why he's been pretty average to even below-average recently.

Strange that you seem to be the only one noticing a largely lackluster performance from Sullinger thus far.  All of these writers, myself, and other CB visitors must have just been imagining things, right?

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #153 on: October 20, 2013, 10:17:14 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Imo the Starting lineup should be

Sullinger-Olynyk-Wallace-Green-AB

It's the best Stevens could put out there
Just don't see KO starting. Fav is 25 and is more experienced including years in Europe. In the post game, Stevens had good things to say

Faverani - Sully -Green - Wallace - Bradley
Sullinger has no business starting. He's overmatched by bigger players, and is developing an unhealthy penchant for the three-point brick. Faverani is ready to start right now.
So would you start Bass or Humphries instead?  What does that do for the team?  Sully has bigger upside than either of them. I already have Fav down as starting center.   I want a team with athleticism and big upside, not players who have already shown their limited upside. Time to start taking this team in a different direction.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #154 on: October 20, 2013, 10:29:09 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Sullinger is not shooting those threes with confidence, which leads me to believe it's Stevens who is telling him to take them.

Telling these guys to bomb away......

It's a good tanking plan  ;)

I believe it will work .

Tuff to watch though

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #155 on: October 20, 2013, 10:32:27 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The deep shooting abilities of Celtics big men like Kelly Olynyk and Vitor Faverani considered, Stevens is encouraging open threes. He may not have hit against the Knicks, but even Jared Sullinger launched a pair of bombs Wednesday night.
"One thing I heard him say to Kelly and Sullinger on the bench - he yelled at them, actually - don't ever pass up an open three," said Avery Bradley. "He wants us to take open, smart shots. I think we're going to shoot a lot of threes this year, considering that we have a lot of stretch fours on this team."

Must be our plan to ensure a top three pick because Sully and Oly do not have reliable shots from trey land.  Fav is the best shooter of these guys.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #156 on: October 21, 2013, 12:19:49 AM »

Offline clover

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Not sure who told you that. Unless there's confirmation, I will consider it exactly as likely that he's taking them because he's chosen to lurk on the perimeter for the most part of half-court possessions.

Stevens himself told me that - on multiple occasions:

Quote from: Tim MacLean
Stevens on Sully's 3's: "He needs to keep shooting them because he'll make them. All of our guys have to shoot them more freely."

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/10/20/4860230/celtics-fall-to-love-and-the-timberwolves-89-104

Quote from: Mark Murphy
The deep shooting abilities of Celtics big men like Kelly Olynyk and Vitor Faverani considered, Stevens is encouraging open threes. He may not have hit against the Knicks, but even Jared Sullinger launched a pair of bombs Wednesday night.
"One thing I heard him say to Kelly and Sullinger on the bench - he yelled at them, actually - don't ever pass up an open three," said Avery Bradley. "He wants us to take open, smart shots. I think we're going to shoot a lot of threes this year, considering that we have a lot of stretch fours on this team."

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/celtics_insider/2013/10/celts_try_to_spread_the_floor

Quote
Also, I've got no idea where you're getting the "first half of the season" part. Sullinger has now played in  games, and 4 or 5 of them have been stinkers. He strung 2 good games together in the middle of the preseason, but that's about it.

WHAT? There is absolutely no way you've watched these preseason games - and paid close attention - and came to the conclusion that Sullinger has been bad far more than he's been good.

Quote from: Mark Murphy
He’s the Celtics’ leading scorer (12.8 ppg) and rebounder (6.5 rpg). He was slightly more subdued last night with 12 points and five rebounds during the team’s first win of the preseason under Stevens, beating the Knicks, 111-81. But for those wondering about the best Celtic during the four games of this preseason, it is quite possibly the same guy who said he wasn’t "close" on the first day of training camp.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/10/sullinger_rebounds_on_pure_instinct

Quote from: Jay King
During media day, when Sullinger called himself "not close" to proper basketball shape, I figured he would struggle at least to begin the preseason. Instead, wearing an extra layer of blubber, he's playing like Boston's best healthy player, a great sign for the 21-year old coming off season-ending back surgery.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2013/10/boston_celtics_mailbag.html

Game 1 vs. TOR: 19:58 min, 14 points on 5-11 shooting, 6 reb, 4 ast, 0 TO
Game 2 vs. NYK: 16:06 min, 6 points on 3-7 shooting, 6 reb, 0 ast, 0 TO
Game 3 vs. PHI: 23:14 min, 19 points on 7-15 shooting, 9 reb, 1 ast, 3 TO
Game 4 vs. NYK: 22:26 min, 12 points on 3-5 shooting, 5 reb, 1 ast, 1 TO

Amazing numbers? No.  But compare that to Olynyk who supposedly "needs" to start, presumably over Sullinger:

Game 1 vs. TOR: 18:49 min, 4 points on 1-5 shooting, 2 reb, 5 ast, 3 TO
Game 2 vs. NYK: 17:23 min, 4 points on 2-5 shooting, 1 reb, 1 ast, 4 TO
Game 3 vs. PHI: 25:26 min, 13 points on 6-16 shooting, 2 reb, 1 ast, 2 TO
Game 4 vs. NYK: 25:01 min, 15 points on 5-6 shooting, 6 reb, 3 ast, 1 TO

And if you bother to look at the rest of the team's numbers, you'll see that Sullinger's are easily among the most impressive across the first few games, becoming notably worse after Game 4.  It's just likely his lack of conditioning has finally caught up to him, hence why he's been pretty average to even below-average recently.

Strange that you seem to be the only one noticing a largely lackluster performance from Sullinger thus far.  All of these writers, myself, and other CB visitors must have just been imagining things, right?

Sully's shooting .406, including .133 from the 3, for the preseason.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #157 on: October 21, 2013, 04:19:47 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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The more suprising thing is not so much Sully taking more threes, but Bass sticking not taking  more threes. If the idea is nobody ought to pass up and open three shouldn't he also be taking more shots from the 3pt line?
Ruto Must Go!

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #158 on: October 21, 2013, 08:43:27 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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The more suprising thing is not so much Sully taking more threes, but Bass sticking not taking  more threes. If the idea is nobody ought to pass up and open three shouldn't he also be taking more shots from the 3pt line?

Perhaps Stevens only is stressing that for the younger players who haven't been in the league long enough to establish a set playstyle?  Just a guess, since I don't think I've noticed Humphries taking any 3 pointers either.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #159 on: October 21, 2013, 09:06:52 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Glad to see so much of Rubio. Dude's an outstandingly fun player to watch.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #160 on: October 21, 2013, 09:07:58 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Sully is 2-15 = 13% 3PG time to stop, you can't make a three with a pencil!

Oly is 2-7 = 30% 3PG  might be ok to shoot them

Vitor is 2-8  25% 3PG  needs work

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/2013

Sully is abysmal at shooting threes.  He needs to stop.  13% is horrible.   At that percentage he is HURTING the TEAM!

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #161 on: October 21, 2013, 09:12:07 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Sully is 2-15 = 13% 3PG time to stop, you can't make a three with a pencil!

Oly is 2-7 = 30% 3PG  might be ok to shoot them

Vitor is 2-8  25% 3PG  needs work

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/2013

Sully is abysmal at shooting threes.  He needs to stop.  13% is horrible.   At that percentage he is HURTING the TEAM!
While I agree that I don't think Sullinger has 3 point range currently, 15 shots isn't a meaningful sample size of shooting percentages.

Eye-balling Ray Allen's game log, he of the most 3s made ever, he had similar stretches of shooting multiple times last year.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #162 on: October 21, 2013, 09:21:56 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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You can tell a lot about how a player misses.  His shots denote as you say, a lack of range.  Offseason is the time to develop range not the season.   

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #163 on: October 21, 2013, 09:27:08 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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You can tell a lot about how a player misses.  His shots denote as you say, a lack of range.  Offseason is the time to develop range not the season.
I'm not an expert on shooting so I'll demur on what his misses indicate.

But the coaches want him taking those 3s and he's shown range from 20 feet in college, practice, and at times the NBA before.

I also fear that with this team during the season is as good as the offseason when it comes to refining and defining your game.

Re: Celtics (1-5) at Wolves (2-2) Preseason Game 7 10/20
« Reply #164 on: October 21, 2013, 10:02:31 AM »

Offline Who

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I wish they'd have Sullinger develop his 14-17 foot and 18-22 foot jump-shooting range before trying to add a three point shot to his repertoire.

Skipping steps.