Zach Lowe on the Celtics

[the_Bird]

I believe it's a worthwhile gamble to hold onto Rondo and see how he reacts to finally being the undisputed alpha dog on the team.  So far, he's at least saying all the right things about his teammates and his new coach.  I think there's a real good chance that Rondo responds well to the challenges of having all that responsibility - that it motivates him to become a truly elite player.

Or, it might blow up, he might demand a trade and we get fifty cents on the dollar.  Right now, I don't think we'd get a lot more than sixty, so I'll take my chances holding onto him.

[Celtics18]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

I don't doubt he's on the trading block in a sense, and he has been for a couple of years now. But because we're not giving him away for pocket change, I doubt he gets traded.

I think at some point we'll take what we can get.   Act quickly before he starts demanding trades and the "Rondo free agency sweepstakes" becomes a thing.  It will not take much.   Whoever takes on some bad contracts (Wallace/Bass/Lee) and throws us a draft pick probably can have him for pennies on the dollar.

Rondo has been nothing but a first class citizen since this rebuilding process has begun.  He is getting along splendidly with his new, young head coach, he is saying all the right things about looking forward to the opportunity to lead this franchise into the future, and he is being universally lauded by his teammates as a leader.

The notion that Rondo will inevitably become disgruntled has absolutely no basis in anything other than the most abject cynicism. 

[chambers]

He's pretty much spot on.
We just aren't scoring enough or stopping enough points in the half court offense.

Listen to Tomy Heinson on the next broadcast.
All season he's going to be barking non stop about how unlucky we are and how many 'good shots' we're taking that just aren't falling.
This is not bad luck as he likes to think. They just aren't good shots on a roster with below average to mediocre jump shooters- we need to get the ball inside and take high percentage shots/free throws.
We've got a few promising bright spots in Sully and Olynyk but meh....they're basically a rookie combo.

My summary of this roster:

*Injured bench All Star who 'shines in the playoffs'- while we have no hope of making the playoffs.

*a rookie big man tandem who will both be at least legit players/starters for a fair while- with a starting level small forward who is an above average role player at this point (KO +Sully+ Green)


*the remainder of the roster are under-skilled, over paid role players and journeymen who won't be around for more than a year (if we can trade them)

Rondo- top 25 player
Avery- undersized combo guard that can't shoot but still has time to improve. Very injury prone and coming up for contract extension (which we can't agree on yet).
Green- shows promise- maybe a top 40 NBA player?
Bass-solid role player next to someone like KG. Not next to Humphries.
Humphries- solid role player like Bass.

Wallace- fading veteran half star who is now a solid role player
Sully-bright spot coming off first year and injury
Kelly O- as above without injury concerns.
Pressey-no idea
Crawford- role player/bum.
Courtney Lee- overpaid role player who hasn't reached bum status yet.
Fav- no idea. Foreign role player.
Marshon Brooks- bright spot with potential. Much more exciting to think about his future than Lee or Crawford. Has size, length and shooting to be a good player- needs to learn defense from Bradley.

[LarBrd33]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

I don't doubt he's on the trading block in a sense, and he has been for a couple of years now. But because we're not giving him away for pocket change, I doubt he gets traded.

I think at some point we'll take what we can get.   Act quickly before he starts demanding trades and the "Rondo free agency sweepstakes" becomes a thing.  It will not take much.   Whoever takes on some bad contracts (Wallace/Bass/Lee) and throws us a draft pick probably can have him for pennies on the dollar.

Rondo has been nothing but a first class citizen since this rebuilding process has begun.  He is getting along splendidly with his new, young head coach, he is saying all the right things about looking forward to the opportunity to lead this franchise into the future, and he is being universally lauded by his teammates as a leader.

The notion that Rondo will inevitably become disgruntled has absolutely no basis in anything other than the most abject cynicism.

Yeah... we're lucky he's saying and doing all the right things.  He's got a tiny stigma of being a difficult player to deal with.  Hopefully he keeps this up, comes back healthy and actually shows he can still be a top 10 PG.  That's the only way we're getting any value for him.

[Celtics18]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

I don't doubt he's on the trading block in a sense, and he has been for a couple of years now. But because we're not giving him away for pocket change, I doubt he gets traded.

I think at some point we'll take what we can get.   Act quickly before he starts demanding trades and the "Rondo free agency sweepstakes" becomes a thing.  It will not take much.   Whoever takes on some bad contracts (Wallace/Bass/Lee) and throws us a draft pick probably can have him for pennies on the dollar.

Rondo has been nothing but a first class citizen since this rebuilding process has begun.  He is getting along splendidly with his new, young head coach, he is saying all the right things about looking forward to the opportunity to lead this franchise into the future, and he is being universally lauded by his teammates as a leader.

The notion that Rondo will inevitably become disgruntled has absolutely no basis in anything other than the most abject cynicism.

Yeah... we're lucky he's saying and doing all the right things.  He's got a tiny stigma of being a difficult player to deal with.  Hopefully he keeps this up, comes back healthy and actually shows he can still be a top 10 PG.  That's the only way we're getting any value for him.

We'll get value for him when we lock him up for at least four more years after the 2015 season at around $60 million total. 

It might end up being as good (or maybe even slightly better) value as what he's given us over the course of the last seven seasons. 

[PhoSita]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

I don't doubt he's on the trading block in a sense, and he has been for a couple of years now. But because we're not giving him away for pocket change, I doubt he gets traded.

I think at some point we'll take what we can get.   Act quickly before he starts demanding trades and the "Rondo free agency sweepstakes" becomes a thing.  It will not take much.   Whoever takes on some bad contracts (Wallace/Bass/Lee) and throws us a draft pick probably can have him for pennies on the dollar.

If you look at everything that Danny has said in the past, I think it's really unlikely he trades Rondo unless there's a significant asset coming in return.  Either a pretty nice young player (e.g. Kanter or Favors) or a guaranteed high lottery pick that will turn into a nice young player.

[kozlodoev]

He's pretty much spot on.
We just aren't scoring enough or stopping enough points in the half court offense.

So many fancy constructs to convey a simple point: We suck.

The problem is we don't suck nearly enough.

[D.o.s.]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

I don't doubt he's on the trading block in a sense, and he has been for a couple of years now. But because we're not giving him away for pocket change, I doubt he gets traded.

I think at some point we'll take what we can get.   Act quickly before he starts demanding trades and the "Rondo free agency sweepstakes" becomes a thing.  It will not take much.   Whoever takes on some bad contracts (Wallace/Bass/Lee) and throws us a draft pick probably can have him for pennies on the dollar.

If you look at everything that Danny has said in the past, I think it's really unlikely he trades Rondo unless there's a significant asset coming in return.  Either a pretty nice young player (e.g. Kanter or Favors) or a guaranteed high lottery pick that will turn into a nice young player.

I believe LarBrd's preferred trade is the Monroe & Stucky/Charlie V. expiring.

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Agreed.  I'm expecting a lot of games like last night, though.  Competitive, fun, and interesting.  I think we can reasonably expect that the team will not be terribly dysfunctional or out of sync.  They won't play terrible basketball. They'll just be at a significant disadvantage in terms of size and talent almost every night.

My favorite way of putting lipstick on a pg.

"we won't play terrible basketball...but we will play really bad basketball."

[nickagneta]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

According to Ainge, the only deal he ever considered making with Rondo was for Chris Paul.  If Rondo does get traded, it will likely be in a deal that brings that kind of super star talent back.  I don't see him getting traded for "a couple of future assets."

I love Ainge.  He lies his fanny off, though.  I'd expect nothing less from a coldhearted master GM. 

We'll see what happens.  I think ultimately we'll take what we can get for Rondo or risk losing him for nothing.

Risk losing Rondo for nothing? When? In the summer of 2015 when this could be a completely made over team with Ainge signing or trading for some stars to add to Rondo.

Ainge made it pretty clear in a recent interview that he doesn't see this draft class as being full of franchise game changing players. His modus operandi for rebuilding is gather young assets, develop them and trade them off for stars. Two years off dropping contracts like Bass', Lee's, and Humphries's, or letting contracts expire and getting good picks and playing and developing them should give Ainge plenty of cap space and excellent youth to trade for stars to add to an in-his-prime Rajon Rondo who would't even be 30 yet.

I know you love talking about the tank for Wiggins and trading Rondo(about the only things you discuss on this forum) but I think Ainge has shown he could and is probably more than likely going to take another route. I mean let's face it LB, you have had Rondo traded off this team since 2010 and still haven't gotten it right yet.

[Celtics4ever]

They'll be solid defensively on the perimeter, and Brad Stevens will have them executing precisely on both ends,

It's one game but our perimeter D was  very porous last night.

[PhoSita]

They'll be solid defensively on the perimeter, and Brad Stevens will have them executing precisely on both ends,

It's one game but our perimeter D was  very porous last night.

Perimeter D in today's game is by it's very nature porous, because of the rules.

The best defenders know how to give the opponent just enough space to be able to defend a drive by channeling them into help and away from their preferred spots, while staying close enough to bother any shot attempts from the perimeter.

The problem for the Celtics this year is there are no weak side shot blockers or otherwise talented help defending bigs to deter drives inside or discourage entry passes.  Because the Celtics lack such size, an opponent with a true center will know that even a missed shot attempt close to the basket is likely to turn into a high percentage layup or dunk from an offensive rebound.


The perimeter defenders can do their job, but unless they actually pick the opposing player's pocket, it won't matter because they can't rely on having a help defender to blow up a pick and roll or block / alter a layup.

[Celtics4ever]

So many fouls last game because defenders could not stay in front of their man.   Our guys are not shot blockers so fouling was their only recourse.

[chambers]

I'm a little more optimistic than Zach but I find it hard to argue with anything he says really

we should get some opportunistic buckets and Stevens should improve some aspects of the offense, but overall it will be a difficult year to pick up wins

Over at Grantland, Bill S thinks Rondo will be traded before the season ends. But, of course, he's Bill S.

It's not just Bill.  Most around the league seem to think the same thing.  Rondo probably would have been traded already if anyone was offering anything of value.  I guess the hope is that he comes back healthy, proves he can still play... and then maybe we get a couple future assets for him.

Hanging onto him is dangerous.

According to Ainge, the only deal he ever considered making with Rondo was for Chris Paul.  If Rondo does get traded, it will likely be in a deal that brings that kind of super star talent back.  I don't see him getting traded for "a couple of future assets."

I love Ainge.  He lies his fanny off, though.  I'd expect nothing less from a coldhearted master GM. 

We'll see what happens.  I think ultimately we'll take what we can get for Rondo or risk losing him for nothing.

Risk losing Rondo for nothing? When? In the summer of 2015 when this could be a completely made over team with Ainge signing or trading for some stars to add to Rondo.

Ainge made it pretty clear in a recent interview that he doesn't see this draft class as being full of franchise game changing players. His modus operandi for rebuilding is gather young assets, develop them and trade them off for stars. Two years off dropping contracts like Bass', Lee's, and Humphries's, or letting contracts expire and getting good picks and playing and developing them should give Ainge plenty of cap space and excellent youth to trade for stars to add to an in-his-prime Rajon Rondo who would't even be 30 yet.

I know you love talking about the tank for Wiggins and trading Rondo(about the only things you discuss on this forum) but I think Ainge has shown he could and is probably more than likely going to take another route. I mean let's face it LB, you have had Rondo traded off this team since 2010 and still haven't gotten it right yet.

I think you're taking too much stock in Danny Ainge's truthfulness. LrBrd33 is 100% right that Ainge is cold blooded and completely FOS when it comes to talking about trades before the fact. He'll gladly offer the truth down the road and he uses that side of his showmanship to throw people off.
He never tries to publicly demotivate his players and that's what he'd be doing if he ever did talk positively about the draft.
The class is the most highly touted class in 10 years and they haven't played an NCAA game yet- there is the size, length and athleticism there to produce multiple top 15 -20 All Stars and maybe a few potential franchise guys.
Why does Ainge say he's not interested when he hasn't even seen them play one college game yet? What a crock. He wasn't on Durant's nuts out of high school.

He's a classic master salesman and completely FOS for all the right reasons.
Don't believe a word he says.

[clover]

I think Stevens and Adams are real believers in Rondo, and they are probably right that with coaching he can be a better player over the next five years than the C's could trade him for.

Then again, if he shows that improvement and health this season, his trade value should rise.

Danny, I suspect, maintains a healthy skepticism and will rightly respond to the market and circumstances.

Certainly, they've got to be hoping for a break in unloading Bass, Humphries, Lee or Wallace. I think they'd be open to trading Bradley or Green for something worthwhile in return as well.

Heck, Danny'd trade any of them for the right price.