Sullinger and Olynyk duo

[LooseCannon]

And given that the jury is still out on whether they could even be .300 shooters...

Give them a couple of seasons.  They're going to have to figure it out in the context of NBA games.

[celtic -_- pride]

Sully is looking more and more like a steal and ko is starting to figure things out but he needs to box out haha. Favors ate him alive on the glass. His shooting is starting to get cringe worthy but when those two are in the post it is beautiful

[Tr1boy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbGh4pspp_o

The future before our eyes.  The third and second last plays are gold.

[ronaldo943]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbGh4pspp_o

The future before our eyes.  The third and second last plays are gold.

Our future role players on a championship team. I remember when AB and Green were our future.

[BballTim]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

Wide open and CBS gets on them when they don't take them. You call it horrible shot selection, I call it doing what they are told. Also those points haven't been accurate except for shot blocking.  Jumping is not all it takes to be athletic. The rebounding is just fine. After Vitor got destroyed early Sully and KO did a great job at manning the middle!

Sullinger and Olynyk are now combined 2 for 15 from three. If these are indeed wide open shots as you claim, and they're making them at this clip -- they have no business stretching the floor all the way to the three-point line.

So it's either poor coaching or poor shot selection, but it's certainly not good basketball.

  My money's on coaching. Sully took fewer threes all of last year than he's taken so far this year.

[Tr1boy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbGh4pspp_o

The future before our eyes.  The third and second last plays are gold.

Our future role players on a championship team. I remember when AB and Green were our future.

I hope your man enough to admit later you were wrong. I have no problem. But my money is on these two to lead our front court.  People question the lack of rim protection capabilities, but these guys will develop better bodies, have excellent motor and iqs to outsmart their opponents.

People once mocked Bird and Mchale as capable under the rim defenders and they proved many wrong. Not saying Oly and Sully will be as good , but just making an example you don't necessarily need to be Mutombo, Olujuwon, Shaq

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I reckon what is being dis-regarded is that the the 3pt shot is only more efficient than the long 2 pointer if the difference between the shooting %age of both shots falls within a certain range. Which is probably why Brandon Bass, for example, with his  really solid jumper almost never tries the 3pt shot. That the difference in capacity his to convert the 3 pointer relative to the long 2 nullifies the extra point the 3 pointer brings in. Maybe in time Sully and Olynyk can contest the 3 at a good enough rate relative to their mid range so it leads to more points per possession, maybe they don't. That is the fun in rebuilding seasons.

[Celtics4ever]

On the three point shooting:

Sully is 2-7

KO is 0-8.

Neither zre reliable shooters from the three point line.  I would say they miss more than they stretch the floor.  they get open looks because it helps the other team.  Sully had one game where he was hot and hit several but the usually he has been way off.

Oly looks short like he needs to add strength on his ball.   Some of Sully's have no rotation on the shot and are just bricks.   Sure a every dog has it's day once in a while but these guys both could build a house with their brick laying.

This is not an efficient shot for these guys they are a combined 2-15.  Isn't it efficient only if they make it.   We are a horrible rebounding team and need these guys inside.   Teams are not covering them outside because they are no threat.  The whole stretch the floor thing doesn't apply here.

Both could develop Oly has soft touch but is too weak for NBA three right now.  Sully needs to focus on the follow through as it is key to shot rotation.

[manl_lui]

their two man game is a beauty to watch. Both are reliable finishers at the rim. Not thunderous finishers like Shaq, Dwight, or w/e, but they can shoot within 10-15 ft, and finish their layups. Sully also has some pretty good post move, along with KO's nice passing ability. Future stars for our team, I'll hold off on that, but I am sure they can both be capable role players for a contending team, and hopefully us

[nickagneta]

I reckon what is being dis-regarded is that the the 3pt shot is only more efficient than the long 2 pointer if the difference between the shooting %age of both shots falls within a certain range. Which is probably why Brandon Bass, for example, with his  really solid jumper almost never tries the 3pt shot. That the difference in capacity his to convert the 3 pointer relative to the long 2 nullifies the extra point the 3 pointer brings in. Maybe in time Sully and Olynyk can contest the 3 at a good enough rate relative to their mid range so it leads to more points per possession, maybe they don't. That is the fun in rebuilding seasons.

I mentioned this earlier. Some didn't take it too well but if you have a throw away year, why not let them shoot from out there and see if they can develop that shot and if they can't, next year have them take their mid range jumpers that the C's know they can hit.

[D.o.s.]

Loving the ball movement with Olynyk in the high post and Sullinger in the low block.

What I really wish, though, was that Sullinger could work on his ups a little bit. Would help him avoid missing so often* around the hoop.



*He may not actually miss often, it just feels that way

[mgent]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

I have to think those threes are shots they hit in practice regularly so the coaching staff is encouraging them to take them. Statistically the three point shot is a better shot attempt than the 16-22 foot two point shot that both have shown(in college and probably practices) that they can make at a good enough clip. Knowing what we know about how this coaching staff love advanced statistics, gotta think they have no problem with this.

So, both are 23 or less in age. Given this is a lost season, my guess is the coaching staff is telling them to take those shots rather than the 18-20 foot shots they know they can make because mathematically its a better shot selection. Develop the shot now when they are young and it doesn't matter if they miss. It will pay dividends in later years.

First of all, there's no problem with the shot selection, there have been no contested or "ill-advised" 3s.  But when you have some of the best shooting bigs in the league making a living from closer in (KG, West, Boozer, Randolph) you definitely have to wonder if they have the right idea.

Considering Bass is a better overall shooter, it's likely he can hit a higher percentage of 3s than Olynyk, Vitor, and Sully, just chooses not to.  If the math tells us to, why wouldn't we force Bass (or KG) to stop chucking inefficient 20 footers?

Now if you have a soft guy like Frye or Ilyasova who can't score inside then whatever, let them fly.  But Olynyk and Sully are great inside scorers, and a good 3pt shoot doesn't help them get in the paint as much as a good midrange in a triple threat situation.

If Olynyk, Vitor, and Sullinger are mathematically helping their team, then Bass and others like KG are mathematically hurting their team.  You can't have it both ways.  This has been debated for years with Josh Smith and Zach Randolph (who took opposing sides of the argument).

You are comparing different variables in an ad hoc debate. Josh Smith, KG, Bass and ZBo are all players that have proven over years and years they do not have the range to hit three point shots at a consistent clip.

No such thing as been established with Olynyk and Sully. 5 game is to small a sample size at the very beginning of their careers to assume they don't have that in their arsenal.

Bass, KG, Smith and Zbo do have good mid range games and that makes them better players and a bigger threat down low because then the defenses have to guard against them stepping out real quick to hit that 15-17 foot shot.

Olynyk and Sully are young. If they do develop the range to shoot threes, it will only enhance their overall effectiveness and make them better players down low because of the spacing it will provide to the overall offense.

If they want to shoot those shots all year, let them. Its a better shot than the 16-22 foot shot. If at year's end they haven't developed some consistency with it, next year you have them move inside the arc to a comfortable range and start shooting those shots.

Ehh, I think your variables are different as well.  Bass, KG, and Zbo have only ever tried the "occasional" 3, none of them have attempted to be true stretch 4s who take the shot in rhythm.  Even Smith has only averaged 1.4 a game in 34 minutes.  This is no where close to the rate Sully, Olynyk, and Vitor have been throwing it up since preseason.

I understand your point of view (taking advantage of a lost year), but there's equal merit to the view that you should prove the 15-22ft shot and gain that confidence before you step back.

My only argument here is the guys with great touch that I mentioned can definitely hit "enough" 3s but choose not to, regardless of the math, because of their success inside.  We can only imagine what elite post players like Sheed would've been like closer to the rim. 

[Tr1boy]

I can buy the "lost year" theory.

Either perfect the 18ft first than work up to the 3 pt shot or take the 3 for now while we rebuild and resort to the 18 later.

Both ways i guess could work and stevens is looking like is taking the 2nd approach. Sully and oly also must be shooting the threes at practice a decent clip to be given a green light to do it at a game.

Some have made good points that olynyk for example is not strong enough to take the three now , so he should refrain from shooting it. Goes back to strengthening  my theory that his form is a little different shooting 3 vs 2. Alot more winding back

As a good but not great shooter , he should also consider shooting the ball from his "comfort" spots first.

He has had dredded success from the far middle and middle left spots. He has made a few from the middle right spot though. He has had hit a few corner 20 ft jump shots and may want to  try shooting it from there in real games situations also.

[mgent]

I can buy the "lost year" theory.

Either perfect the 18ft first than work up to the 3 pt shot or take the 3 for now while we rebuild and resort to the 18 later.

Both ways i guess could work and stevens is looking like is taking the 2nd approach. Sully and oly also must be shooting the threes at practice a decent clip to be given a green light to do it at a game.

Some have made good points that olynyk for example is not strong enough to take the three now , so he should refrain from shooting it. Goes back to strengthening  my theory that his form is a little different shooting 3 vs 2. Alot more winding back

As a good but not great shooter , he should also consider shooting the ball from his "comfort" spots first.

He has had dredded success from the far middle and middle left spots. He has made a few from the middle right spot though. He has had hit a few corner 20 ft jump shots and may want to try shooting it from there in real games situations also.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they aren't, just that there are probably other guys in the league that could hit the 3 at a decent clip in practice, but choose not to shoot them.

I think it's probably a weird feeling for Bass seeing Sully, Olynyk, and Vitor shooting more than just a few 3s, when none of them have yet proven they have a stroke anywhere close to his.

[Tr1boy]

I can buy the "lost year" theory.

Either perfect the 18ft first than work up to the 3 pt shot or take the 3 for now while we rebuild and resort to the 18 later.

Both ways i guess could work and stevens is looking like is taking the 2nd approach. Sully and oly also must be shooting the threes at practice a decent clip to be given a green light to do it at a game.

Some have made good points that olynyk for example is not strong enough to take the three now , so he should refrain from shooting it. Goes back to strengthening  my theory that his form is a little different shooting 3 vs 2. Alot more winding back

As a good but not great shooter , he should also consider shooting the ball from his "comfort" spots first.

He has had dredded success from the far middle and middle left spots. He has made a few from the middle right spot though. He has had hit a few corner 20 ft jump shots and may want to try shooting it from there in real games situations also.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they aren't, just that there are probably other guys in the league that could hit the 3 at a decent clip in practice, but choose not to shoot them.

I think it's probably a weird feeling for Bass seeing Sully, Olynyk, and Vitor shooting more than just a few 3s, when none of them have yet proven they have a stroke anywhere close to his.

I disagree about vitor. He has hit the three at a decent rate , well if you consider 1 out of 2 decent avg. But still better than sully/oly for now.

When he is open and ready to shoot the three you get a good feeling it will go in.