Sullinger and Olynyk duo

[Bankshot]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

Wide open and CBS gets on them when they don't take them. You call it horrible shot selection, I call it doing what they are told. Also those points haven't been accurate except for shot blocking.  Jumping is not all it takes to be athletic. The rebounding is just fine. After Vitor got destroyed early Sully and KO did a great job at manning the middle!

Sullinger and Olynyk are now combined 2 for 15 from three. If these are indeed wide open shots as you claim, and they're making them at this clip -- they have no business stretching the floor all the way to the three-point line.

So it's either poor coaching or poor shot selection, but it's certainly not good basketball.

I cringe every time Sullinger takes a 3, KO not so much.  I believe the 3 is part of KO's game.  Sullinger appears to be trying to develop that shot, not sure why though.

[Evantime34]

I have seen Olynyk make 3's. In pre season and in the summer league, his shot has yet to fall so far but I believe it will, I also have faith in Sullinger's ability to shoot 3's. So far they haven't hit a lot of outside shots but I attribute this more to Sully coming back from injury  and Olynyk getting settled into the nba.

[Snakehead]

I'm still firmly on the fire away from three because it will be good for the team if you both can shoot plan.  Doesn't really matter right now and both have good looking shots.

[mgent]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

I have to think those threes are shots they hit in practice regularly so the coaching staff is encouraging them to take them. Statistically the three point shot is a better shot attempt than the 16-22 foot two point shot that both have shown(in college and probably practices) that they can make at a good enough clip. Knowing what we know about how this coaching staff love advanced statistics, gotta think they have no problem with this.

So, both are 23 or less in age. Given this is a lost season, my guess is the coaching staff is telling them to take those shots rather than the 18-20 foot shots they know they can make because mathematically its a better shot selection. Develop the shot now when they are young and it doesn't matter if they miss. It will pay dividends in later years.

First of all, there's no problem with the shot selection, there have been no contested or "ill-advised" 3s.  But when you have some of the best shooting bigs in the league making a living from closer in (KG, West, Boozer, Randolph) you definitely have to wonder if they have the right idea.

Considering Bass is a better overall shooter, it's likely he can hit a higher percentage of 3s than Olynyk, Vitor, and Sully, just chooses not to.  If the math tells us to, why wouldn't we force Bass (or KG) to stop chucking inefficient 20 footers?

Now if you have a soft guy like Frye or Ilyasova who can't score inside then whatever, let them fly.  But Olynyk and Sully are great inside scorers, and a good 3pt shoot doesn't help them get in the paint as much as a good midrange in a triple threat situation.

If Olynyk, Vitor, and Sullinger are mathematically helping their team, then Bass and others like KG are mathematically hurting their team.  You can't have it both ways.  This has been debated for years with Josh Smith and Zach Randolph (who took opposing sides of the argument).

[nickagneta]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

I have to think those threes are shots they hit in practice regularly so the coaching staff is encouraging them to take them. Statistically the three point shot is a better shot attempt than the 16-22 foot two point shot that both have shown(in college and probably practices) that they can make at a good enough clip. Knowing what we know about how this coaching staff love advanced statistics, gotta think they have no problem with this.

So, both are 23 or less in age. Given this is a lost season, my guess is the coaching staff is telling them to take those shots rather than the 18-20 foot shots they know they can make because mathematically its a better shot selection. Develop the shot now when they are young and it doesn't matter if they miss. It will pay dividends in later years.

First of all, there's no problem with the shot selection, there have been no contested or "ill-advised" 3s.  But when you have some of the best shooting bigs in the league making a living from closer in (KG, West, Boozer, Randolph) you definitely have to wonder if they have the right idea.

Considering Bass is a better overall shooter, it's likely he can hit a higher percentage of 3s than Olynyk, Vitor, and Sully, just chooses not to.  If the math tells us to, why wouldn't we force Bass (or KG) to stop chucking inefficient 20 footers?

Now if you have a soft guy like Frye or Ilyasova who can't score inside then whatever, let them fly.  But Olynyk and Sully are great inside scorers, and a good 3pt shoot doesn't help them get in the paint as much as a good midrange in a triple threat situation.

If Olynyk, Vitor, and Sullinger are mathematically helping their team, then Bass and others like KG are mathematically hurting their team.  You can't have it both ways.  This has been debated for years with Josh Smith and Zach Randolph (who took opposing sides of the argument).

You are comparing different variables in an ad hoc debate. Josh Smith, KG, Bass and ZBo are all players that have proven over years and years they do not have the range to hit three point shots at a consistent clip.

No such thing as been established with Olynyk and Sully. 5 game is to small a sample size at the very beginning of their careers to assume they don't have that in their arsenal.

Bass, KG, Smith and Zbo do have good mid range games and that makes them better players and a bigger threat down low because then the defenses have to guard against them stepping out real quick to hit that 15-17 foot shot.

Olynyk and Sully are young. If they do develop the range to shoot threes, it will only enhance their overall effectiveness and make them better players down low because of the spacing it will provide to the overall offense.

If they want to shoot those shots all year, let them. Its a better shot than the 16-22 foot shot. If at year's end they haven't developed some consistency with it, next year you have them move inside the arc to a comfortable range and start shooting those shots.

[gift]

As expected
- Lack of Athleticism
- Don't ask them to block shots
- Bad rebounding performance by Olynyk

Also horrible shot selection. They both chucked some pretty ill-advised threes last night.

Wide open and CBS gets on them when they don't take them. You call it horrible shot selection, I call it doing what they are told. Also those points haven't been accurate except for shot blocking.  Jumping is not all it takes to be athletic. The rebounding is just fine. After Vitor got destroyed early Sully and KO did a great job at manning the middle!

Sullinger and Olynyk are now combined 2 for 15 from three. If these are indeed wide open shots as you claim, and they're making them at this clip -- they have no business stretching the floor all the way to the three-point line.

So it's either poor coaching or poor shot selection, but it's certainly not good basketball.

I cringe every time Sullinger takes a 3, KO not so much.  I believe the 3 is part of KO's game.  Sullinger appears to be trying to develop that shot, not sure why though.

because there are no fours?

[Tr1boy]

Bass is not a better shooter than either sully/oly. It took him a long time in the league to perfect his mid range jump shot and its still not automatic today. The form is not textbook either the way he has to gather himself to shoot. But if it works for him, nobody can complain

Bass also def is not a 3 pt shooter. He has to put into alot of effort to take a simple two i dont know what he has to do to take a three. I dont think ive ever seen him shoot a 3 before actually. But its a good thing he knows his limit

Oly and sully need to perfect the 18 ft shot first and then worry about the three.  Not saying they cant be decent 3 pt shooters but dont shoot 3 or 4 a game

A great 3 pt shooter has the same shooting mechanics as when they shoot the mid range jumper, as when they shoot the fts. Olynyk and sully form on the 3 are diff  vs other jump shots. Its not reliable right now. Worse case it can screw with ability to make the simple 2 jumpers.

[kozlodoev]

Bass, KG, Smith and Zbo do have good mid range games and that makes them better players and a bigger threat down low because then the defenses have to guard against them stepping out real quick to hit that 15-17 foot shot.

Olynyk and Sully are young. If they do develop the range to shoot threes, it will only enhance their overall effectiveness and make them better players down low because of the spacing it will provide to the overall offense.

Both Olynyk and Sullinger shot threes in college, from a shorter distance and at a horrible clip. I'd much rather that they develop their inside game, not their inside Antoine Walker.

[Interceptor]

I'm on the side that thinks KO is just having a run of bad luck and/or rookie nerves. He has demonstrated the ability to hit that shot, just not in an actual NBA game. One of his threes last night was completely wide-open, defense was scrambling and nobody could contest, but he rushed the shot and bricked it. I think that goes away with time.

Not sure if I ever want to see Sully taking a three. I'm sure he can hit it if they are letting him take them, but he's such a rebounding and put-back wizard that I want him under the basket.

[kozlodoev]

I'm on the side that thinks KO is just having a run of bad luck and/or rookie nerves. He has demonstrated the ability to hit that shot, just not in an actual NBA game. One of his threes last night was completely wide-open, defense was scrambling and nobody could contest, but he rushed the shot and bricked it. I think that goes away with time.

Not sure where and when he demonstrated that ability. He was a combined 6 for 23 in preseason and Summer League, and there's nothing that suggests he can be a reliable three-point shooter.

Sorry, but the only thing that can come out of this effort is wasted time and bad habits.

[Tr1boy]

Bass, KG, Smith and Zbo do have good mid range games and that makes them better players and a bigger threat down low because then the defenses have to guard against them stepping out real quick to hit that 15-17 foot shot.

Olynyk and Sully are young. If they do develop the range to shoot threes, it will only enhance their overall effectiveness and make them better players down low because of the spacing it will provide to the overall offense.

Both Olynyk and Sullinger shot threes in college, from a shorter distance and at a horrible clip. I'd much rather that they develop their inside game, not their inside Antoine Walker.

Good point. Btw what is the 3 pt distance in college ball vs nba??

[kozlodoev]

Bass, KG, Smith and Zbo do have good mid range games and that makes them better players and a bigger threat down low because then the defenses have to guard against them stepping out real quick to hit that 15-17 foot shot.

Olynyk and Sully are young. If they do develop the range to shoot threes, it will only enhance their overall effectiveness and make them better players down low because of the spacing it will provide to the overall offense.

Both Olynyk and Sullinger shot threes in college, from a shorter distance and at a horrible clip. I'd much rather that they develop their inside game, not their inside Antoine Walker.

Good point. Btw what is the 3 pt distance in college ball vs nba??

20 ft 9 inch at the top for NCAA, 23 ft 9 inch for NBA, if I'm not mistaken. So there's a good 3-foot difference.

[Interceptor]

Not sure where and when he demonstrated that ability. He was a combined 6 for 23 in preseason and Summer League, and there's nothing that suggests he can be a reliable three-point shooter.

You said it yourself: he was 6 for 23 in summer/preseason, which is only a couple makes away from league average. We don't know how he shoots in practice, but it does appear that the coach isn't yanking him for taking a couple a game.

If he's still shooting like Josh Smith well into the season, maybe that's de-emphasized, but even if he can only hit ~30-35% that's still a useful thing for the team.

[kozlodoev]

Not sure where and when he demonstrated that ability. He was a combined 6 for 23 in preseason and Summer League, and there's nothing that suggests he can be a reliable three-point shooter.

You said it yourself: he was 6 for 23 in summer/preseason, which is only a couple makes away from league average. We don't know how he shoots in practice, but it does appear that the coach isn't yanking him for taking a couple a game.

If he's still shooting like Josh Smith well into the season, maybe that's de-emphasized, but even if he can only hit ~30-35% that's still a useful thing for the team.

It's also a couple of misses from a player who should never take a three in his career.

He couldn't shoot 35% from college three during his time at Gonzaga (non-trivial sample of 75 shots), so as I said -- no demonstrated ability to make the deep three.

Let's just say that I don't think any .300 shooters should look for the three point shot the way those two do. And given that the jury is still out on whether they could even be .300 shooters...

[Interceptor]

It's also a couple of misses from a player who should never take a three in his career.

No, it's a couple misses from a 17.4% average. You can't really extrapolate someone's career from 23 three-pointers, unless maybe they were all airballs or one of them put a hole in the backboard.

He couldn't shoot 35% from college three during his time at Gonzaga (non-trivial sample of 75 shots), so as I said -- no demonstrated ability to make the deep three.

Let's just say that I don't think any .300 shooters should look for the three point shot the way those two do. And given that the jury is still out on whether they could even be .300 shooters...

KO is a rookie. Dirk barely cleared 20% his first year (not that I am calling him the next Dirk or anything). KO's college average is dragged down by his first year performance; cut off the '09-10 season, and he's 21 for 57: a 36.8% college three-point shooter.

There are no guarantees in life or in the NBA, but KO is close enough that I think it's worth pursuing. It's enough of an argument that you can't be surprised with either result, but three-point shooters are valuable, even if just as a threat. Taking 1.6 a game so far is not really ridiculous; we're not talking '09-10 'sheed numbers, here.