SI on Celtics, Ainge, Stevens. "Celtics aim to develop talent, not tank for more

[BASS_THUMPER]

i love the article

i never for once thought this team would tank
it never has
so stop the "should we..could we...we ought a" tank threads

i never seen this team give less 100%
regardless how we struggled

that why i love this team..

"sippin"

ps..the "we should tank"  threads are very important
they give various insight on our thoughts of how we should think more about business and not heart

keep it comin

www.youtube.com/v/eDNGhGZirCE?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0

[CelticAZ]

I personally think that Ainge can't openly talk about tanking because it would be very unsportsmanlike and, more importantly, Stern will be on the lookout for any team that is being open about tanking... if he catches someone being that stupid he will lower the boom on them.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Part of me suspects the extent these high school prospects are being hyped is down to pushing viewership numbers for NCAA Basketball. They might be very good prospects, mind you even the legendarily weak 06 class had a Rondo in it, but really are last seasons high school grads ALL that?

[Mazingerz]

Part of me suspects the extent these high school prospects are being hyped is down to pushing viewership numbers for NCAA Basketball. They might be very good prospects, mind you even the legendarily weak 06 class had a Rondo in it, but really are last seasons high school grads ALL that?

I too find it too suspicious that hyping this or that talent and who is gonna get picked number 1 even if that kid still has to play college ball.

I find it hard to stomach that high school kids also have their own version of "THE DECISION".

[Onslaught]

Part of me suspects the extent these high school prospects are being hyped is down to pushing viewership numbers for NCAA Basketball. They might be very good prospects, mind you even the legendarily weak 06 class had a Rondo in it, but really are last seasons high school grads ALL that?

I think in a few years we will look back at this draft as one of the most overrated and overhyped drafts in a long time.

[Tr1boy]

I don't know about the whole smokescreen subterfuge thing about the draft. Ainge made it extremely clear there were franchise changing players in the 2007 draft and that there were two, well ahead of the draft. I don't see a need to be setting up smokescreens regarding the quality of players in a draft. Their pick will be determined by their record. The salary of that player is per-determined. They aren't going to be moving pieces to acquire a second top 10 pick next year(major assumption but I think it a good one).

He has a bad team. He has an injured star. His team's record is going to be bad. A smokescreen isn't going to stop some massive investigation into the team for purposeful tanking. So why do it?

I don't see a motive for setting up a smokescreen for the perceived quality of the talent coming out of college next year. I do not see what such a thing would accomplish. I think he just believes these young kids have been massively over-hyped(they have) and won't be as good as advertised(most usually aren't).

I think it's because he doesn't see this year's team as likely getting enough lottery balls to get fans' hopes up.   Philly and Phoenix are doing such a tankfest that it'll be nearly impossible to finish worse than either, and there's probably a half-dozen other teams we could be reasonably expected to be better than.  Picking in the 8-12 range isn't going to get one of the top 2-3 potential superstars, so why talk them up only to get your fans disappointed?

If Rondo's going to be out a while and considering that early December would only be nine months since his surgery, he might be out a really long time, I find it hard to believe the Celtics will finish in the 8-12 range.  I would take Phoenix's roster over the Celtic's without Rondo for sure.  What you're saying about how awful other teams will be, other fans are saying about the Celtics.  At the end of the season, it might be laughable to have expected this team, with its severe lack of firepower, big man defensive presence and the rookiest of rookie coaches to win something like 35 games.  This team is one of the most expensive collection of role players I can recall. 

At any rate, the good thing about this draft is that it might be deep in potential franchise players.  It won't be the end of the world to get the fifth or sixth pick.

How did miami win last year without two out of their big three ? How did they win without any of their big three? Yes it was not for a long stretch but they did win 5 or 6 out of 8. The team without their big three is a collection of role players players. No jeff green, no wallace.

The celts have a collection of guys who starting or near starting types. The team has three rookies only. As for the lack of defensive presence issue, just look at how indiana has overcome this issue.

We are not like the magic or cats, just full of young players praying to gel.

By having an above-average defensive center (not to mention that, he's you know, an All-Star) who makes teams work much harder at driving to the hoop?

Yeah, ok.

Whatever man. Hibbert all star or not has never been considered a scary defensive presence. But he is 7 ft with good iq and ok mobility right?

And then there is david west. No comment. The bottom line is, they play as a team and play really good team d.

Yes, they play good-to-great team defense.

Otherwise: Are you serious?

Hibbert finished in the top ten for DPOY. He repeatedly made the Heat look foolish during the ECF last year. In the playoffs. In (Chris Webber voice) "Playoff Basketball."

Here's some description from ESPN:

The Heat shot 58.5 percent in the restricted area in the Heat/Pacers series with Hibbert on the floor.

When he was on the bench it was 67.6 percent.

When Hibbert mans the court, the Heat take 33.1 percent of their shots in the restricted area. When Hibbert sits, that numbers rises to 42.0 percent.

This isn't just a one-series blip. In a research paper presented at the MIT Sports Conference, Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry found that when players shot the ball inside five feet with Hibbert nearby, they converted those shots at just 38.2 percent, the lowest rate in the league this season. Hibbert also prevented those shots from even happening at one of the highest rates in the league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/page/hibbert-130601/roy-hibbert-making-heat-change-their-ways

With all due respect, weren't you the guy saying David Lee was a good defender? I've got to seriously question what you're watching on the court if you think Hibbert's not a great defensive presence.

Hibbert has improved each year since coming into the league. Kind of like marc gasol. Were these guys first drafted because they could block 3 a game?? Or able to guard players faster than them?? They developed how to play good d, first learning how to mesh well in team d concept.

David lee i said is a decent team defending pf. Thus he is a decent defender. A team cant do as well as they did last year with a below avg defending any starter in their team. Esp inside the paint. If he was as bad as u think he is, why not throw it down to hibbert and let him score 40? Its not as easy as that


So in the end if you still follow, u dont need a mutombo in order for a team not to get killed inside.

[moiso]

I don't know about the whole smokescreen subterfuge thing about the draft. Ainge made it extremely clear there were franchise changing players in the 2007 draft and that there were two, well ahead of the draft. I don't see a need to be setting up smokescreens regarding the quality of players in a draft. Their pick will be determined by their record. The salary of that player is per-determined. They aren't going to be moving pieces to acquire a second top 10 pick next year(major assumption but I think it a good one).

He has a bad team. He has an injured star. His team's record is going to be bad. A smokescreen isn't going to stop some massive investigation into the team for purposeful tanking. So why do it?

I don't see a motive for setting up a smokescreen for the perceived quality of the talent coming out of college next year. I do not see what such a thing would accomplish. I think he just believes these young kids have been massively over-hyped(they have) and won't be as good as advertised(most usually aren't).

I think it's because he doesn't see this year's team as likely getting enough lottery balls to get fans' hopes up.   Philly and Phoenix are doing such a tankfest that it'll be nearly impossible to finish worse than either, and there's probably a half-dozen other teams we could be reasonably expected to be better than.  Picking in the 8-12 range isn't going to get one of the top 2-3 potential superstars, so why talk them up only to get your fans disappointed?

If Rondo's going to be out a while and considering that early December would only be nine months since his surgery, he might be out a really long time, I find it hard to believe the Celtics will finish in the 8-12 range.  I would take Phoenix's roster over the Celtic's without Rondo for sure.  What you're saying about how awful other teams will be, other fans are saying about the Celtics.  At the end of the season, it might be laughable to have expected this team, with its severe lack of firepower, big man defensive presence and the rookiest of rookie coaches to win something like 35 games.  This team is one of the most expensive collection of role players I can recall. 

At any rate, the good thing about this draft is that it might be deep in potential franchise players.  It won't be the end of the world to get the fifth or sixth pick.

How did miami win last year without two out of their big three ? How did they win without any of their big three? Yes it was not for a long stretch but they did win 5 or 6 out of 8. The team without their big three is a collection of role players players. No jeff green, no wallace.

The celts have a collection of guys who starting or near starting types. The team has three rookies only. As for the lack of defensive presence issue, just look at how indiana has overcome this issue.

We are not like the magic or cats, just full of young players praying to gel.

By having an above-average defensive center (not to mention that, he's you know, an All-Star) who makes teams work much harder at driving to the hoop?

Yeah, ok.

Whatever man. Hibbert all star or not has never been considered a scary defensive presence. But he is 7 ft with good iq and ok mobility right?

And then there is david west. No comment. The bottom line is, they play as a team and play really good team d.

Yes, they play good-to-great team defense.

Otherwise: Are you serious?

Hibbert finished in the top ten for DPOY. He repeatedly made the Heat look foolish during the ECF last year. In the playoffs. In (Chris Webber voice) "Playoff Basketball."

Here's some description from ESPN:

The Heat shot 58.5 percent in the restricted area in the Heat/Pacers series with Hibbert on the floor.

When he was on the bench it was 67.6 percent.

When Hibbert mans the court, the Heat take 33.1 percent of their shots in the restricted area. When Hibbert sits, that numbers rises to 42.0 percent.

This isn't just a one-series blip. In a research paper presented at the MIT Sports Conference, Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry found that when players shot the ball inside five feet with Hibbert nearby, they converted those shots at just 38.2 percent, the lowest rate in the league this season. Hibbert also prevented those shots from even happening at one of the highest rates in the league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/page/hibbert-130601/roy-hibbert-making-heat-change-their-ways

With all due respect, weren't you the guy saying David Lee was a good defender? I've got to seriously question what you're watching on the court if you think Hibbert's not a great defensive presence.

Hibbert has improved each year since coming into the league. Kind of like marc gasol. Were these guys first drafted because they could block 3 a game?? Or able to guard players faster than them?? They developed how to play good d, first learning how to mesh well in team d concept.

David lee i said is a decent team defending pf. Thus he is a decent defender. A team cant do as well as they did last year with a below avg defending any starter in their team. Esp inside the paint. If he was as bad as u think he is, why not throw it down to hibbert and let him score 40? Its not as easy as that


So in the end if you still follow, u dont need a mutombo in order for a team not to get killed inside.

Hibbert is an excellent defender...one of the best at the center position. 

David Lee is one of the worst defenders in the league at any position.  And though Lee was a bit inspirational for playing some minutes hurt in the playoffs, the Warriors actually played better after Lee injured himself.

[Endless Paradise]

 Joined just to share this:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.pdf

Results
Case Study 1: Basket Proximity
Overall more than 1/3rd of shots in our superset of 76,000 shots occurred with an interior defender within 5 feet of the basket. We assert that “dominant” interior defense can manifest in two ways: reducing the shooting efficiency of opponents, and also reducing the shooting frequency of opponents. In terms of reducing efficiency, we found that Indiana’s Roy Hibbert and Milwaukee’s Larry Sanders (Figure 3) were by far the most effective. We evaluated this by measuring the field goal percentage of close range shots when a qualifying interior defender was within 5 feet of the basket. Overall, NBA shooters make 49.7% of their field goal attempts when qualifying interior defender is within 5 feet of the basket; however, this number drops to 38% when either Hibbert or Sanders are within 5 feet. In contrast, we found that Phoenix’s Luis Scola and Golden State’s David Lee (Figure 3) were the worst defenders in these situations; opponents made 63% of their close-range field goals when Scola was within 5 feet of the basket. See Appendices 1 and 1A for a full list of qualifying defenders.

Even a study concludes that Lee is one of the worst defenders in the league.  Not really a subject up for debate.  If you think Lee is a decent defender, you're quite simply wrong; can't even chalk that up to a difference of opinion.

[Tr1boy]

I don't know about the whole smokescreen subterfuge thing about the draft. Ainge made it extremely clear there were franchise changing players in the 2007 draft and that there were two, well ahead of the draft. I don't see a need to be setting up smokescreens regarding the quality of players in a draft. Their pick will be determined by their record. The salary of that player is per-determined. They aren't going to be moving pieces to acquire a second top 10 pick next year(major assumption but I think it a good one).

He has a bad team. He has an injured star. His team's record is going to be bad. A smokescreen isn't going to stop some massive investigation into the team for purposeful tanking. So why do it?

I don't see a motive for setting up a smokescreen for the perceived quality of the talent coming out of college next year. I do not see what such a thing would accomplish. I think he just believes these young kids have been massively over-hyped(they have) and won't be as good as advertised(most usually aren't).

I think it's because he doesn't see this year's team as likely getting enough lottery balls to get fans' hopes up.   Philly and Phoenix are doing such a tankfest that it'll be nearly impossible to finish worse than either, and there's probably a half-dozen other teams we could be reasonably expected to be better than.  Picking in the 8-12 range isn't going to get one of the top 2-3 potential superstars, so why talk them up only to get your fans disappointed?

If Rondo's going to be out a while and considering that early December would only be nine months since his surgery, he might be out a really long time, I find it hard to believe the Celtics will finish in the 8-12 range.  I would take Phoenix's roster over the Celtic's without Rondo for sure.  What you're saying about how awful other teams will be, other fans are saying about the Celtics.  At the end of the season, it might be laughable to have expected this team, with its severe lack of firepower, big man defensive presence and the rookiest of rookie coaches to win something like 35 games.  This team is one of the most expensive collection of role players I can recall. 

At any rate, the good thing about this draft is that it might be deep in potential franchise players.  It won't be the end of the world to get the fifth or sixth pick.

How did miami win last year without two out of their big three ? How did they win without any of their big three? Yes it was not for a long stretch but they did win 5 or 6 out of 8. The team without their big three is a collection of role players players. No jeff green, no wallace.

The celts have a collection of guys who starting or near starting types. The team has three rookies only. As for the lack of defensive presence issue, just look at how indiana has overcome this issue.

We are not like the magic or cats, just full of young players praying to gel.

By having an above-average defensive center (not to mention that, he's you know, an All-Star) who makes teams work much harder at driving to the hoop?

Yeah, ok.

Whatever man. Hibbert all star or not has never been considered a scary defensive presence. But he is 7 ft with good iq and ok mobility right?

And then there is david west. No comment. The bottom line is, they play as a team and play really good team d.

Yes, they play good-to-great team defense.

Otherwise: Are you serious?

Hibbert finished in the top ten for DPOY. He repeatedly made the Heat look foolish during the ECF last year. In the playoffs. In (Chris Webber voice) "Playoff Basketball."

Here's some description from ESPN:

The Heat shot 58.5 percent in the restricted area in the Heat/Pacers series with Hibbert on the floor.

When he was on the bench it was 67.6 percent.

When Hibbert mans the court, the Heat take 33.1 percent of their shots in the restricted area. When Hibbert sits, that numbers rises to 42.0 percent.

This isn't just a one-series blip. In a research paper presented at the MIT Sports Conference, Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry found that when players shot the ball inside five feet with Hibbert nearby, they converted those shots at just 38.2 percent, the lowest rate in the league this season. Hibbert also prevented those shots from even happening at one of the highest rates in the league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/page/hibbert-130601/roy-hibbert-making-heat-change-their-ways

With all due respect, weren't you the guy saying David Lee was a good defender? I've got to seriously question what you're watching on the court if you think Hibbert's not a great defensive presence.

Hibbert has improved each year since coming into the league. Kind of like marc gasol. Were these guys first drafted because they could block 3 a game?? Or able to guard players faster than them?? They developed how to play good d, first learning how to mesh well in team d concept.

David lee i said is a decent team defending pf. Thus he is a decent defender. A team cant do as well as they did last year with a below avg defending any starter in their team. Esp inside the paint. If he was as bad as u think he is, why not throw it down to hibbert and let him score 40? Its not as easy as that


So in the end if you still follow, u dont need a mutombo in order for a team not to get killed inside.

Hibbert is an excellent defender...one of the best at the center position. 

David Lee is one of the worst defenders in the league at any position.  And though Lee was a bit inspirational for playing some minutes hurt in the playoffs, the Warriors actually played better after Lee injured himself.

What about the regular season? That doesnt count? Being able to play team shows to me ur a decent defender. Its not like a fab melo who has the tools to be a better defender than lee, but may never be the team defender he is to get time on the court

[billysan]

I think Ainge will have Stevens push hard for the first half to see what we have in terms of talent. We should be able to see the holes in the roster by then.

After the break and a look around at the trade deadline to upgrade, he will take his NCAA and International prospect wish list and see who is worth targeting. If we are 'bad enough' at that stage to warrant a run at a high draft choice and there are some impact players within reach, then we will lose a few too many games down the stretch.

The hard push in the first half will also establish some market value on a few of our players deemed 'expendable' going forward due to contract, actual talent, redundancy or compatability.

In the final part of this scenario, Danny will be looking at the FA market for 2014 and attempting to clear cap space for a value signing or two if available.

[Tr1boy]

I think Ainge will have Stevens push hard for the first half to see what we have in terms of talent. We should be able to see the holes in the roster by then.

After the break and a look around at the trade deadline to upgrade, he will take his NCAA and International prospect wish list and see who is worth targeting. If we are 'bad enough' at that stage to warrant a run at a high draft choice and there are some impact players within reach, then we will lose a few too many games down the stretch.

The hard push in the first half will also establish some market value on a few of our players deemed 'expendable' going forward due to contract, actual talent, redundancy or compatability.

In the final part of this scenario, Danny will be looking at the FA market for 2014 and attempting to clear cap space for a value signing or two if available.

I agree with your prediction as to what will happen. If we push hard to stay in the playoff mix , by the trade deadline, we could actually pry some of these 2014 big names using our many assets. If we are def out of the picture like being 7-10 games out of 8th place, do a fire sale and focus on 2014 draft and fa. I personally dont hope for that bc it will be a long wait then before we get back into the playoffs

[kozlodoev]

like it or not, Rick P. is a Hall of Famer in the Basketball Hall of Fame (note: not just the NBA)

Good ole Rick was hired in 1997, which still doesn't answer who the HoFs were on the 95-96 and 96-97 teams.

But then again -- depending on how far you'd like to stretch the concept, Red was still around, y'know.

[Galeto]

Part of me suspects the extent these high school prospects are being hyped is down to pushing viewership numbers for NCAA Basketball. They might be very good prospects, mind you even the legendarily weak 06 class had a Rondo in it, but really are last seasons high school grads ALL that?

I think in a few years we will look back at this draft as one of the most overrated and overhyped drafts in a long time.

What is this based on?  If you have specific objections about Wiggins, Randle, Parker, possibly Exum, the Harrison Twins, Smart and etc, please share.

The idea that this hyping is to benefit NCAA ratings is absurd.  What about the years when the draft classes are blasted before the season, like say, just last season?  I don't know why GMs and scouts would be interested in raising NCAA ratings some years and sinking them in others.  And more than that, there isn't a strong yearly correlation between NCAA ratings and the strength of a draft class.  Fans of college basketball will watch anyway, because they  like it and because they root for their alma mater.  And of those who are mostly fans of NBA basketball, only a small segment of them bother to watch NBA prospects anyway. 

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Its just my natural scepticism saying, this all sounds too good to be true.

[billysan]

I think Ainge will have Stevens push hard for the first half to see what we have in terms of talent. We should be able to see the holes in the roster by then.

After the break and a look around at the trade deadline to upgrade, he will take his NCAA and International prospect wish list and see who is worth targeting. If we are 'bad enough' at that stage to warrant a run at a high draft choice and there are some impact players within reach, then we will lose a few too many games down the stretch.

The hard push in the first half will also establish some market value on a few of our players deemed 'expendable' going forward due to contract, actual talent, redundancy or compatability.

In the final part of this scenario, Danny will be looking at the FA market for 2014 and attempting to clear cap space for a value signing or two if available.

I agree with your prediction as to what will happen. If we push hard to stay in the playoff mix , by the trade deadline, we could actually pry some of these 2014 big names using our many assets. If we are def out of the picture like being 7-10 games out of 8th place, do a fire sale and focus on 2014 draft and fa. I personally dont hope for that bc it will be a long wait then before we get back into the playoffs

I forgot to mention, Rondo will take his time rehabbing if we are really getting our butt kicked before Christmas. At that point, when he does come back I wouldnt be surprised to see it be for an audition of sorts.

I really hope this isnt the case as this will definitley keep us out of the playoffs for 2 or more years. Rondo IMO is our main piece, with no offense to JG, that makes us playoff relevant after this season.