Finn Thinks 96-97 Celtics Had More Pure Talent

[PhoSita]

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2013/09/ten_free_minutes_for_me_13.html

The huge Celtics banner outside the pro shop at TD Garden/North Station now features ... Avery Bradley. Nice player, right, but in a related note, I'm setting the over/under for Celtics wins at 22. And leaning toward the under. Tell me again that this team has more pure talent than the 15-67 team of 1996-97.

I can't say that I was really much of a sports / NBA fan back then when I was less than 10 years old.

Anybody who watched the team avidly back then want to make an argument one way or another, or just speak to the players that were on that team and how they compare?

[jambr380]

It's hard to argue against that point.

Antoine was the pride and joy putting up averages of 18/9

Wesley, Fox, Williams, and Day all put up very decent averages of between 14-17 ppg

Three of our top players in Radja, Barros, and Dee Brown all were injured for most of the year. If they hadn't been, the season might have gone quite differently.

While most of these guys sound pretty iffy in most people's eyes, they all were quite capable players. With a similar injury bug hitting this year's team, I don't see why we would do much better.

[DarkAzcura]

Yeah, they could be. Difference is they were purposely tanking. Not the players so much but the coach. Carr, years later, has even admitted to pulling players who were hot. Any other situation with normal coaching and that team was probably talented enough to win 25-30. Still in the gutter but not 15 win bad.

I don't feel Stevens is that kind of guy, though, so it's tough seeing this team win only 15. Too much pride and grit with this group, IMO.

[Lucky17]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1997.html

I think a lot of the "pure talent" (whatever that means) on that squad resided in guys who had 3 years of NBA experience or less, so they were all pretty raw.

There's no one on that roster that compares to Rondo.

[Lucky17]

Todd Day, Rick Fox, and Eric Williams may have hung around in the league for several years as decent glue guys/rotation players, but if those are the #3, #4, and #5 high scorers on your roster, you don't have much talent at all.

[cons]

every roster in the NBA every year has " talent"its how they play and what happens during the season that determines the outcome.
  like others said, the 96 97 team tried to lose. so its not really a fair comparison. all indications are that this team will try to win. rondo prob > toine and jeff green prob better than whoeveer you'd count as that other teams #2  but overall the talent level may not be that different but i'm expecting a better overall result.

[fantankerous]

every roster in the NBA every year has " talent"its how they play and what happens during the season that determines the outcome.
  like others said, the 96 97 team tried to lose. so its not really a fair comparison. all indications are that this team will try to win. rondo prob > toine and jeff green prob better than whoeveer you'd count as that other teams #2  but overall the talent level may not be that different but i'm expecting a better overall result.

Rick Fox was a better player than Jeff Green.

As to the article, I'll take this year's team over the 96-97 team, but it's really close. 

[LooseCannon]

Todd Day, Rick Fox, and Eric Williams may have hung around in the league for several years as decent glue guys/rotation players, but if those are the #3, #4, and #5 high scorers on your roster, you don't have much talent at all.

It'd be slightly worse than having Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, and Devean George be your #3, #4, and #5 scorers.

[LooseCannon]

Rick Fox was a better player than Jeff Green.

That sounds like an interesting thread someone can start.

[Surferdad]

Todd Day, Rick Fox, and Eric Williams may have hung around in the league for several years as decent glue guys/rotation players, but if those are the #3, #4, and #5 high scorers on your roster, you don't have much talent at all.

I agree. I'll take this year's squad. Green is better than Fox, IMO. 

If we're talking talent, I don't see how winning is a basis for comparison, at least not directly.

[Boris Badenov]

I'm not sure what "pure talent" even means, but I think with similar coaching the 96-97 team is about equal to this Celtics team without Rondo.

With a healthy Rondo I think our current squad is measurably better than that one was.

Also that 96-97 team was either rather unlucky or very badly coached. The pythagorean W-L for that team was 22-60, which is much better than 15-67.

One other weird thing: considering that Williams, Fox and Wesley were all pretty good defenders, it is surprising that the Celtics were last in team defense that year. Again, I think coaching might have been a factor. Also, Marty Conlon and Brett Szabo started half the games.

One final weird thing: Rick Fox's actual first name is Ulrich.

[Boris Badenov]

Rick Fox was a better player than Jeff Green.

That sounds like an interesting thread someone can start.

Fox's split chart shows that on Fridays during the 96-97 season, he averaged 18 ppg, 6 rpg, 4 apg and 2.2 spg on 46% overall with 46% 3pt and 81% ft. If you focus on that small and arbitrarily defined sample, he looks like an All-Star!

Kidding aside, Fox was a really good two-way player, it's no insult to Green to make the comparison. He was a key part of two championship teams and played some of his best ball in the biggest games of his career.

[DarkAzcura]

every roster in the NBA every year has " talent"its how they play and what happens during the season that determines the outcome.
  like others said, the 96 97 team tried to lose. so its not really a fair comparison. all indications are that this team will try to win. rondo prob > toine and jeff green prob better than whoeveer you'd count as that other teams #2  but overall the talent level may not be that different but i'm expecting a better overall result.

Rick Fox was a better player than Jeff Green.

As to the article, I'll take this year's team over the 96-97 team, but it's really close.

Sorry, whaattt? Rick Fox never played as well as Jeff Green. Jeff Green even in his down season with us after the trade was still better than what Fox mustered for most of his career.

Fox is a James Posey kind of player/glue guy. Jeff Green has borderline all star talent or at least closer to borderline than Fox.

[moiso]

every roster in the NBA every year has " talent"its how they play and what happens during the season that determines the outcome.
  like others said, the 96 97 team tried to lose. so its not really a fair comparison. all indications are that this team will try to win. rondo prob > toine and jeff green prob better than whoeveer you'd count as that other teams #2  but overall the talent level may not be that different but i'm expecting a better overall result.

Rick Fox was a better player than Jeff Green.

As to the article, I'll take this year's team over the 96-97 team, but it's really close.

Sorry, whaattt? Rick Fox never played as well as Jeff Green. Jeff Green even in his down season with us after the trade was still better than what Fox mustered for most of his career.

Fox is a James Posey kind of player/glue guy. Jeff Green has borderline all star talent or at least closer to borderline than Fox.

Green has more "talent" as you say, but I'd take Fox or Posey in their primes over Green any day.  They were tougher, more competitive players.

[Donoghus]

Todd Day is one of my least favorite Celtics of all-time.  Despised him as a player.

That '96-97 team was not a good bunch.  Funny, in retrospect, you look back and see names like Fox, Wesley, Barros, Antoine, etc... and wonder why they blew so bad.  Of course, they also had immortals like Szabo & Conlon.  Williams & 'Toine were the only two that really held promise.  I think we pretty much realized what we had with Wesley & Fox by that time.

Like others have mentioned, that team had no one like Rondo and I do think the youth movement on this team is better.

I don't expect 15-67.  I think this team could potentially win 30 something games depending on Rondo's timetable for recovery.  I also don't see Stevens pulling an ML Carr, either.