Doc talks about KG, Perk trade, etc.

[sahara]

Losing Perk in game 7 of the finals lost a championship.

Its really hard to convince celtics fans and and any fan that if we didn't make that trade that we may have had a chance in that year.

Even if if you believe perk is that big a difference maker its not like losing KG in 09 or losing Rondo or something.

If you wanted to ride it out to ride it out and see what happens that's fine. But to act like he would have vaulted us from losing in second round in 5 games to the NBA finals seems a little absurd.

I think that he would´ve made a big difference. Perk was the hockey-style-goon that made just enough for KG to be that much more effective, physically and mentally.

[86MaxwellSmart]

The Perkins trade WAS a Mistake---Derailed our entire team....Danny should have waited until the Off-Season to make that deal...he just out-smarted himself.

The biggest mistake of the Big 3 era---was firing Lucky the Mascot--2+ weeks later KG blew out his knee---and we were never the same....You had just won the first Championship in 22 Bad Luck years--and were Killing the rest of the league...You don't fire somebody named "LUCKY".

[Onslaught]

Was Doc always this ridiculous, and I just blocked it out because he was our coach?

Perkins is an overpaid stiff, Jeff Green is a stud, and filming commercials isn't mutually exclusive with doing work on the floor.

Sorry, Jeff Green is not a "stud." Not even close.

And I do think we lost some of our toughness. We lost a guy who did some of the dirty work that didn't show up on stat sheets.

In the long run the trade could've been a better deal for us. I think it hurt us that year and probably the next one too.

[TripleOT]

The biggest mistake of the Big 3 era---was firing Lucky the Mascot--2+ weeks later KG blew out his knee---and we were never the same....You had just won the first Championship in 22 Bad Luck years--and were Killing the rest of the league...You don't fire somebody named "LUCKY".

Lucky let his success go to his head, demanding limos and referring to himself as Lucky in conversation, as in "Lucky  wants a bigger limo." Lucky had to go. 

[mmmmm]

The Perk trade WAS a mistake (everyone knows it)

Oh really? I don't consider it a mistake, and I'm part of "everyone", so I think there's a problem with your data set.

Let me rephrase.

After the Perk trade, the Celts were left with no legit center. Shaq was injured, Jermaine O'Neal did return afterwards but does not have Perk's toughness and Krstic never really seem to find his niche on the team.

Before the Perk trade, the Celts had ZERO HEALTHY CENTERS!   None.  Nada.  Zero.

Perk, Shaq, Jermaine, Semih - ALL were injured.

They also had no backup SF.

After the trade they had a starting caliber center (Krstic) and a backup SF (Green).

Perk was never very healthy or effective the rest of that season.   Go back and look at how many actual minutes he played down the stretch.  He was a shell.

Keeping Perk in no way or form would have been any sort of guarantee that we would have won anything, let alone Banner 18.

Together, Jermaine and Krstic actually gave us more value and production at the center position in the playoffs than Perk gave OKC.

Not having a healthy Shaq and Rondo getting his arm bent backward were far more critical factors than the Perk trade as to why we didn't win that season.

[gpap]

Let me rephrase.

After the Perk trade, the Celts were left with no legit center. Shaq was injured, Jermaine O'Neal did return afterwards but does not have Perk's toughness and Krstic never really seem to find his niche on the team.

Maybe on paper, the deal made sense (maybe.)

But leading into the February 2011 deadline, that team should not have been altered and should've been left the way it was.

Sometimes it still pains me to think what could've been had that 2010-11 team been left alone. Remember, the Celts were 3-0 vs Miami in that season series before the Perk deal and got off to a 38-10 start.

Yes I know Perk was out for most of that season and Shaq was our guy in the beginning of the year.

But, by the time the Celts played Miami in the playoffs that year, you could tell something wasn't right.

Miami was good, but there is no way they should've beaten the Celts in 5 games in that series.(though I am sure everyone will point to the Rondo and Shaq injuries.)

And furthermore, I definitely agree with Doc that dealing Perk put a much greater strain on KG because he had no other back-up in the paint.

Remember Pierce's quote the day of the Perk deal, "man I hope Danny and Doc know what they are doing."

Well, I don't think Danny does.

AND, 2 1/2 years later, I still fail to see what the big benefit was in getting Jeff Green. No doubt he's a good player. But was it worth jeopardizing the Celts chances of a title in 2011? No.

Your recollection doesn't really gel with what actually happened, though.

Shaq was out, as stated, but when he was healthy we were absolutely murdering people. JO broke his wrist in the first round of the playoffs against the Knicks. Krstic picked up bone bruises in both knees within the last couple games of the regular season. Rondo had his elbow broken by Wade. For Christmas's sake, Perkins got injured AGAIN (MCL sprain) almost immediately after he came back.

Perkins on OKC the rest of that season was a shell of his former self, and let's be frank here, his former self wasn't even that great to begin with. We play 4 on 5 offensively with him on the floor, he can't hit free throws, and Miami's small ball line-up doesn't even make him an asset defensively.

And you can't ignore that Rondo injury. Don't forget that the year following, after having lost everyone and their brother to injury, with PP/Judas playing hurt and KG out of gas, we still came within a nosehair of knocking Miami out in the ECF. Why? Because Rondo was lighting them up and having the series of his career, that's why.


Everyone loves Perk, I get it. I love the guy too. But not as a basketball player.

I think in a way we are both saying the same thing but differ on how the Perk deal negatively affected the Celts playoff run in 2011.

Yes, I do realize in the first half of the season, we were rolling with Shaq as our center and Perk still injured.

And yes, I do realize that Rondo's injury dented our chances even more.

HOWEVER, as you said yourself, by the time the Miami series came around that year, JO's wrist was hurt and Krstic had knee bruises.

Don't you think as a result, we could've used Perk in that Miami series?

Also, though it's not guaranteed we beat Miami with Perk, can you imagine how sweet it would've been to see Perk avenge Rondo's injury and hunt down that punk Wade?

If Perk was still on the team, I am not so sure Wade has the balls to break Rondo's arm.

Hence if Rondo doesn't get injured and we still have Perk manning the center spot, I say there's a good chance we would've been too much for Miami.

As for Perk being a shell of himself in OKC that year, who's to say that trade didn't affect him the same way it affected the Celtics chemistry?

Also, for all the talk of how badly we needed a backup SF that season, Jeff Green didn't really contribute much in the playoffs, so what was the point?

[More Banners]

The Perk trade WAS a mistake (everyone knows it)

Oh really? I don't consider it a mistake, and I'm part of "everyone", so I think there's a problem with your data set.

Let me rephrase.

After the Perk trade, the Celts were left with no legit center. Shaq was injured, Jermaine O'Neal did return afterwards but does not have Perk's toughness and Krstic never really seem to find his niche on the team.

Before the Perk trade, the Celts had ZERO HEALTHY CENTERS!   None.  Nada.  Zero.

Perk, Shaq, Jermaine, Semih - ALL were injured.

They also had no backup SF.

After the trade they had a starting caliber center (Krstic) and a backup SF (Green).

Perk was never very healthy or effective the rest of that season.   Go back and look at how many actual minutes he played down the stretch.  He was a shell.

Keeping Perk in no way or form would have been any sort of guarantee that we would have won anything, let alone Banner 18.

Together, Jermaine and Krstic actually gave us more value and production at the center position in the playoffs than Perk gave OKC.

Not having a healthy Shaq and Rondo getting his arm bent backward were far more critical factors than the Perk trade as to why we didn't win that season.

It really WAS amazing how easy that team made it look with Shaq on the floor cleaning everything up.  He had really great hands.  Nobody talks about that.  Great hands, that guy.

[D.o.s.]

The Perk trade WAS a mistake (everyone knows it)

Oh really? I don't consider it a mistake, and I'm part of "everyone", so I think there's a problem with your data set.

Let me rephrase.

After the Perk trade, the Celts were left with no legit center. Shaq was injured, Jermaine O'Neal did return afterwards but does not have Perk's toughness and Krstic never really seem to find his niche on the team.

Before the Perk trade, the Celts had ZERO HEALTHY CENTERS!   None.  Nada.  Zero.

Perk, Shaq, Jermaine, Semih - ALL were injured.

They also had no backup SF.

After the trade they had a starting caliber center (Krstic) and a backup SF (Green).

Perk was never very healthy or effective the rest of that season.   Go back and look at how many actual minutes he played down the stretch.  He was a shell.

Keeping Perk in no way or form would have been any sort of guarantee that we would have won anything, let alone Banner 18.

Together, Jermaine and Krstic actually gave us more value and production at the center position in the playoffs than Perk gave OKC.

Not having a healthy Shaq and Rondo getting his arm bent backward were far more critical factors than the Perk trade as to why we didn't win that season.

It really WAS amazing how easy that team made it look with Shaq on the floor cleaning everything up.  He had really great hands.  Nobody talks about that.  Great hands, that guy.

Yeah, that was probably my favorite starting 5 for the Celtics during the KG era;
Rondo
Ray
Pierce
KG
Shaq.

That first (?) game when they just stomped all over the Heat, with the celebration party still fresh news...

Glorious. I wish that game was on youtube.

[Moranis]

Losing Perk in game 7 of the finals lost a championship.

Its really hard to convince celtics fans and and any fan that if we didn't make that trade that we may have had a chance in that year.

Even if if you believe perk is that big a difference maker its not like losing KG in 09 or losing Rondo or something.

If you wanted to ride it out to ride it out and see what happens that's fine. But to act like he would have vaulted us from losing in second round in 5 games to the NBA finals seems a little absurd.

The only way Perk might have mattered would have been if Boston somehow hung on a little longer in the playoffs and Shaq came back.  Then it might have mattered.

People also forget that at the time of the trade Boston basically had no one backing up Pierce and needed Jeff Green badly to give Pierce a spell and take some pressure off of him so he could be good to go for the playoffs.  Additionally, Perkins was injured at the time of the trade and didn't play the first 9 games he was on OKC.  Boston was 6-2 in that stretch with Krstic and Green.  No way Boston is 6-2 without Krstic and Green. 

Couple all of that with the simple truth that Miami was playing Joel Anthony, Chris Bosh, and Juwan Howard at center the entire series and I just don't see how people think Perkins would have mattered against them.  He wouldn't (and couldn't) have guarded Bosh and Anthony and Howard were basically worthless on the offensive end of the floor (so you didn't need Perkins there).  Perkins would have been a fish out of water in that series and would have made absolutely no difference as there was no need for his defense and his terrible offense only would have held the team back.  (for an example, look at how terrible he was the following year against Miami in the finals while playing for OKC)

[Moranis]

And for the record, this is just Doc taking shots at Ainge and trying to make himself look better.  World I would have had another title on my resume if not for Danny Ainge's tinkering.  I would expect nothing less from Doc Rivers.  That is just the kind of scumbag he is. 

[manl_lui]

The Perk trade WAS a mistake (everyone knows it)

Oh really? I don't consider it a mistake, and I'm part of "everyone", so I think there's a problem with your data set.

Let me rephrase.

After the Perk trade, the Celts were left with no legit center. Shaq was injured, Jermaine O'Neal did return afterwards but does not have Perk's toughness and Krstic never really seem to find his niche on the team.

Before the Perk trade, the Celts had ZERO HEALTHY CENTERS!   None.  Nada.  Zero.

Perk, Shaq, Jermaine, Semih - ALL were injured.

They also had no backup SF.

After the trade they had a starting caliber center (Krstic) and a backup SF (Green).

Perk was never very healthy or effective the rest of that season.   Go back and look at how many actual minutes he played down the stretch.  He was a shell.

Keeping Perk in no way or form would have been any sort of guarantee that we would have won anything, let alone Banner 18.

Together, Jermaine and Krstic actually gave us more value and production at the center position in the playoffs than Perk gave OKC.

Not having a healthy Shaq and Rondo getting his arm bent backward were far more critical factors than the Perk trade as to why we didn't win that season.

It really WAS amazing how easy that team made it look with Shaq on the floor cleaning everything up.  He had really great hands.  Nobody talks about that.  Great hands, that guy.

Yeah, that was probably my favorite starting 5 for the Celtics during the KG era;
Rondo
Ray
Pierce
KG
Shaq.

That first (?) game when they just stomped all over the Heat, with the celebration party still fresh news...

Glorious. I wish that game was on youtube.

sign me up! I LOVED that team...I loved it so much, I made that team on NBA 2k, with stats they had during their prime, simulated the season

my god the results were awesome 

[paidthecost2betheboss]

I recall Doc saying to a camera, and I'm paraphrasing;

"Listen guys, it's all about Miami. Miami and Miami, that's who we gotta focus on"

He said it on the way to or in Europe and it was while they were assembling a "small ball" squad. I thought it was arrogant and ignoring that his best players were by N.B.A standards "Old". How that was ever going to work was beyond me without trading Paul who is the best slow first stepper you'll ever see but small ball made no sense? Wrong personel and coaching staff.

Doc is a piece of work to forget being on board and courting players to play that scheme which does not put a priority on an "Enforcer".

This coach lost his locker room and was calling them out on the T.V. and using names like soft and then ridiculing folks when they got into a scuffle calling it schoolyard crap.

Which one is it and why didn't you get another "enforcer" instead of deeming an entire new scheme a better idea?

The dude is nuts and surrounded by sychophants

[gpap]

And for the record, this is just Doc taking shots at Ainge and trying to make himself look better.  World I would have had another title on my resume if not for Danny Ainge's tinkering.  I would expect nothing less from Doc Rivers.  That is just the kind of scumbag he is.

A bit harsh.

[the_Bird]

Was Doc always this ridiculous, and I just blocked it out because he was our coach?

Perkins is an overpaid stiff, Jeff Green is a stud, and filming commercials isn't mutually exclusive with doing work on the floor.

....  I'm thinking Doc River is *probably* a better judge of this stuff than either you or I. 

The two people in the best position to know how the trade impacted KG are KG and his coach - so I'm going to trust his opinion on the matter.

[Moranis]

And for the record, this is just Doc taking shots at Ainge and trying to make himself look better.  World I would have had another title on my resume if not for Danny Ainge's tinkering.  I would expect nothing less from Doc Rivers.  That is just the kind of scumbag he is.

A bit harsh.

I don't believe so at all obviously.  Doc Rivers is not a likeable person.  He is the biggest phony in sports.  He says what people want to hear and then when they aren't paying attention does something entirely different and then in the few times he is called on it blames someone else.  I hate Doc Rivers as much as anyone can hate a sports figure they don't know.  He just isn't likeable and I'm glad he is gone.