Author Topic: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance  (Read 20561 times)

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Re: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2013, 11:40:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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http://celticshub.com/2009/11/02/revisiting-the-07-draft-would-the-cs-have-taken-odendurant/

Sounds like to me that Ainge never even bothered to really look at Oden/Durant since he knew they were going to be 1 and 2 and he would have had 6 weeks from the draft lottery to the draft to make the determination (and then only if he had 1, since he knew he was taking the other one at 2) and was instead much more focused on 3 through 7 since those picks were totally up in the air. 

There also seems to have been the very real possibility that Boston would have traded the first or second pick for Garnett and would have been able to keep Jefferson in that situation, which would have been very interesting going forward (maybe they can still land Allen using West, Gomes, and a future pick or two).

  I'd guess that's another sign of Doc and Danny having different visions of the 2007 draft. I don't see Danny trading a top 2 pick in that draft in order to keep Al on the roster.

Yeah, no way Ainge would've traded either Oden or Durant for Garnett.  Both were too highly thought of to trade even for someone like Garnett who was 12 years older.  Regardless, Garnett wouldn't have accepted the trade anyway since Ray Allen wouldn't have been joining them to form a great trio.  On the other hand, maybe Seattle takes Jefferson for Ray Allen.  Still, no way Ainge or Celtics ownership okays dealing two of the most hyped prospects ever.

On another note, I don't think Pierce would've asked for a trade either.  I think one would've been granted if he was adamant that he was tired of rebuilding and wanted to win now but I remember reading about how Pierce was very intrigued with both guys.  I mean, who wouldn't have been but he sounded pretty excited about the possibility, especially a big like Oden.  He must have been heartbroken like everyone else. 

If we had gotten Oden, I can't imagine how painful it would've been.  That draft was supposed to rectify the misfortune of the Duncan draft.  Even Popovich quipped about how he hoped Celtics fans could finally move on from Duncan if they got Oden.  And then to see Oden break down and hardly play?  Ugh.  After Bias, Lewis, Duncan, Pitino, Gaston, etc, it would've been too much.  I'm sure it's been rough on Oden but it might have been worse if he broke down in a big media market like Boston too.  In that regard, he was a bit lucky as well.
Um, the quotes are from Ainge. 
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“What people don’t understand is that we could’ve still done all that (the trades) and, with the No. 1 pick, maybe been able to keep a player like a Delonte West or an Al Jefferson (who were sent to Seattle and Minnesota, respectively),” Ainge told The Bee over the summer.

“We hated trading them away. We had discussed the possibility of trading the No. 1 pick or the No. 2 pick also. And when you get the No. 5 pick, you just don’t have the same (leverage). If you got the No. 1 or No. 2 pick, sometimes that by itself gets you a lot.”

Garnett might have been more inclined to come to Boston if Jefferson was still here.  I also think, Boston is able to keep the Minnesota pick and the conditional pick.  Heck they might have been even able to keep some of Gomes, Green, and Telfair.  I think 1 or 2, plus Ratliff and one of the young guys lands Garnett (Green had the most upside so he probably goes to Minnesota).  Garnett probably is ok with the trade in that situation because Jefferson is still there along with Perkins. 

Just imagine what might have been with Rondo, West, Pierce, Garnett, Jefferson with Perkins, Gomes, Wally, Telfair, plus whatever free agents come here.  Even without making the Ray Allen trade the team is a clear title contender for years.  And it still had Jefferson.  Probably could have used Jefferson to land a guy like Pau Gasol.  Put Gasol with KG and PP and that team wins at least 3 titles (in large part because LA doesn't have Pau).


The problem with keeping 1 or 2 was that likely meant Pierce was gone, especially if it was Oden and he got hurt.  Pierce was never going to go through another rebuild.  Even if he wasn't traded, he would have left in free agency as soon as possible and would have made it difficult on Boston to keep him.
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Re: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2013, 12:16:19 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'd almost forgotten about Yi - that was a close one lol.  Pruitt over Gasol hurts (in hindsight for me especially, bc I didn't even know who marc gasol was at that time lol), but interestingly, it may have hurt the lakers more than people think.  It was great for LA that they drafted him, but when they traded for Pau with Marc and Kwame, it actually backfired in hindsight.  I don't remember when bynum started having knee problems, but it was pretty early on.  Chris Wallace would've taken any junk players from the lakers bc he's a moron, but if bynum and kwame were traded for Pau, LA's frontcourt could've been the best passing one since the Celtics of the 80s.  The lakers still could've made the finals in 08 and then gotten marc to team with his brother the next year, and that's scary.  Idt we could've beaten them, even with a healthy KG.  Who knows?


Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers are really sad that they got two titles and three consecutive finals appearances for Kwame Brown and Marc Gasol. ::)
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Re: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2013, 01:46:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd almost forgotten about Yi - that was a close one lol.  Pruitt over Gasol hurts (in hindsight for me especially, bc I didn't even know who marc gasol was at that time lol), but interestingly, it may have hurt the lakers more than people think.  It was great for LA that they drafted him, but when they traded for Pau with Marc and Kwame, it actually backfired in hindsight.  I don't remember when bynum started having knee problems, but it was pretty early on.  Chris Wallace would've taken any junk players from the lakers bc he's a moron, but if bynum and kwame were traded for Pau, LA's frontcourt could've been the best passing one since the Celtics of the 80s.  The lakers still could've made the finals in 08 and then gotten marc to team with his brother the next year, and that's scary.  Idt we could've beaten them, even with a healthy KG.  Who knows?


Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers are really sad that they got two titles and three consecutive finals appearances for Kwame Brown and Marc Gasol. ::)
exactly.  And the part about Wallace is just silly.  Wallace asked for and would not have done the trade without Marc Gasol.  He absolutely wanted him and felt he was the real prize of the trade (not the cap flexibility or multiple first round picks).  Now I'm sure if the Lakers said we want to keep Gasol, you can have Bynum he would have done it, but Wallace wasn't going to just take whatever.  The cap space also led to the signing of Zach Randolph so I think Memphis did just fine in the trade in retrospect.
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Re: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2013, 07:04:02 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers are really sad that they got two titles and three consecutive finals appearances for Kwame Brown and Marc Gasol. ::)

Um, wow, that's not what I meant at all.  All I'm saying is that they were obviously hoping that Bynum could take the reigns from Kobe when Bryant retires and then build around him, but because of his knees it didn't work out.  Would you rather acquire the Gasol brothers, keep Odom, and make the finals 3 years in a row with a healthy tandem for the present and future, or would you rather rely on Bynum's knees?  Come on.  That's what I was talking about.

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exactly.  And the part about Wallace is just silly.  Wallace asked for and would not have done the trade without Marc Gasol.  He absolutely wanted him and felt he was the real prize of the trade (not the cap flexibility or multiple first round picks).  Now I'm sure if the Lakers said we want to keep Gasol, you can have Bynum he would have done it, but Wallace wasn't going to just take whatever.  The cap space also led to the signing of Zach Randolph so I think Memphis did just fine in the trade in retrospect.

How is the part about Chris Wallace silly?  The guy is a well documented idiot.  Sure, the trade worked out extremely well for Memphis, but at the time everyone in the league thought that the trade for Pau was ridiculous.  Even though he later changed his stance (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/29/popovich-re-thinks-pau-deal/), this was Pop's opinion in 2008 -

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"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," Popovich said at the time. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

But hey, I know that you guys think I'm a moron anyway (and I am an idiot lol), so whatever.

Re: Ainge - a look at GM draft performance
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2013, 06:59:00 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers are really sad that they got two titles and three consecutive finals appearances for Kwame Brown and Marc Gasol. ::)

Um, wow, that's not what I meant at all.  All I'm saying is that they were obviously hoping that Bynum could take the reigns from Kobe when Bryant retires and then build around him, but because of his knees it didn't work out.  Would you rather acquire the Gasol brothers, keep Odom, and make the finals 3 years in a row with a healthy tandem for the present and future, or would you rather rely on Bynum's knees?  Come on.  That's what I was talking about.

Quote
exactly.  And the part about Wallace is just silly.  Wallace asked for and would not have done the trade without Marc Gasol.  He absolutely wanted him and felt he was the real prize of the trade (not the cap flexibility or multiple first round picks).  Now I'm sure if the Lakers said we want to keep Gasol, you can have Bynum he would have done it, but Wallace wasn't going to just take whatever.  The cap space also led to the signing of Zach Randolph so I think Memphis did just fine in the trade in retrospect.

How is the part about Chris Wallace silly?  The guy is a well documented idiot.  Sure, the trade worked out extremely well for Memphis, but at the time everyone in the league thought that the trade for Pau was ridiculous.  Even though he later changed his stance (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/29/popovich-re-thinks-pau-deal/), this was Pop's opinion in 2008 -

Quote
"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," Popovich said at the time. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

But hey, I know that you guys think I'm a moron anyway (and I am an idiot lol), so whatever.
So because Pop didn't know how good Marc Gasol was (or more likely was p---ed the Lakers got a lot better), that means Wallace didn't.  Marc Gasol was in the middle of a MVP season in the second best league in the world at the time of the trade and was still just 22/23.  He wasn't just some random second round pick.  Wallace said at the time and every point after that, that he loved Marc Gasol and felt he could be a very good NBA player for a very long time.  He also realized Memphis was going nowhere with Pau and needed to re-boot so he unloaded a massive long term contract for some young players, draft picks, and a ton of cap flexibility.  Just because a trade initially looks one sided, doesn't mean that it is.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 10:19:11 AM by Moranis »
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