2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread : VOTING ENDS 8:00PM EST TONIGHT

[Kane3387]

Gay is a very very good player and I like him so there! 

Seriously though. Memphis was pretty good with him and Zbo together last year and were right at the top of the league and in contender status.  After the trade they took a step back but were very fortunate when Westbrook hurt his knee. Gay gave them a dimension no one else on the roster could.

Assuming I stand pat. Jr and lee come off the pine. With five picks in rounds 6-8 I hopefully can round out my top ten guys, and this league is deeeeep at guard, but I have a feeling this team is far from a finished product in regards to its core and its still very early in the process.

Stay tuned.

Memphis has been better when one of those two were not there.  They just don't help each other. 


And there was a difference.  They went from losing to the Clippers in the playoffs to beating the Clippers in the playoffs.

Can't forget that griffin was unhealthy this year vs zbo being unhealthy last year. Neither was close to 100% in those series when they had their health issues.

[wdleehi]

With 4.2, the Mile High City Nuggets select, and Yoki welcomes back the leader of the My Boys club to his side.

Andrew Bogut



We need a rim protector, and not only is he one, he's a very vocal defensive anchor, which helps Monroe's lack of defensive awareness.

And he's healthy, this aint last year, when I proved you guys wrong.

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

Because he's trying to heal the ankle. He was sent back early and had a setback.

He came back out of shape and slow and then picked it up and averaged 12 rebounds, 2 blocks in the Playoffs, the most important games of the year.

We're not talking about a guy who got injured heading into the next year. He's healthy and ready to play this year, completely different scenario.

Haters gonna hate, everyone can use the "injury card" all they want an I'll just show the Playoffs performance. This is a great pick. A top 10 Center in the 4th round? Sign me up.

It is not "haters gonna hate"

It's "breakers gonna break"


And as of know, you drafted a proven breaker.

[indeedproceed]

You guys don't understand Enes Kanter. I understand, its a big, bold league out there, and its tough to have a handle on everyone who is playing. Here is what the writers at the SBNation Blog slcDunk have to say about him:

Kanter ... Without Limitations

With Kanter, we have to look at both the Millsap Doctrine and examine any limiting factors ... because he has played only limited minutes thus far.

Well, look at Kanter's shots last season:

    At Rim: 184 shots — 65% FG — 40% assisted
    3-9 Feet: 92 shots — 45% FG — 56% assisted
    10-15 Feet: 50 shots — 40% FG — 85% assisted
    16-23 Feet: 52 shots — 46% FG — 88% assisted

That, friends, is one of the most beautiful sets of shot data I have ever seen. He's above average from all areas of the court. At the same time, he takes significantly more shots from the most effective spots. This is one of the big things that hurts players ... taking more shots from lower percentage areas. Kanter has not had that problem at all to date.

Smart players get good at mid-range jumpers to open up opportunities to score at the rim. Less smart players get good at mid-range jumpers so they can jack up a bunch of them. So far, thankfully, Kanter fits the smart scorer profile.

About 50% of his shots are at the rim, about 25% close, and about 25% from the entire 10-23 foot range. Additionally, Kanter focuses his jumper in drive and kick situations (look at the number of assisted shots) rather than jacking up contested jumpers just because. At the same time, you can see that he is fully capable of creating shots for himself on his own ... look at that lower assist percentage in close.

Basically, as long as you have guys who can drive and kick, Kanter's scoring is 100% scalable given bigger minutes and a bigger role. So sit back and smile, because we have Gordon Hayward and Trey Burke on our team.

There are no limiting factors here.

In fact, I think we have a perfect Super Millsap Doctrine candidate (a guy whose production exceeds when given more minutes). Here's why:

    Kanter's shooting improved in all areas from his rookie to 2nd season. This fits the profile of a player who does even better in year 3.
    Kanter has already generally done well when given more minutes. And because we've watched the Jazz the past two years, we know we don't have to worry so much about the correlation/causation questions.
    Trey Burke excels at getting big-men easy layups and dunks down low. He did it in college. He did it today to Gobert. He's going to do it for Kanter this year. He's going to get more shots assisted in the paint, and his FG% there will reap the benefits.
    I'll be honest, this last point is a mystery at this point. But there's been a bit of chatter of Kanter going out to the 3-point line. I've seen him hit near half-court shots in warm-ups. He shot 14-25 from three at his pre-draft combine. There's a difference between hitting them in drills and in games, however. A big difference. But let's be honest: if Kanter can give us Memo 3-point shooting, it's over.

Even excluding the final point, it's pretty reasonable to hope that Kanter becomes a monster-scoring big man.
Other Areas

There's more to basketball than just scoring however, even if a guy is scoring 20+ ppg at a 60% True Shooting clip. His rebounding, of course, is good. But his defensive rebounding took a bit of a dip last year, and it will be a huge benefit to see it get back to his rookie rate. But that's small compared to some other areas that he needs to improve if the Jazz are going to be better than a 30-win team.

His turnovers have been very, very high. That has to improve. As does his passing. 1 assist per game (his per-36 minute assist stat last year) is not what the team needs. The good news is that his passing is already showing a major trend of improvement (300% higher last year compared to his rookie year). But there's still a long, LONG way to go. He's going to command double-teams, and he's going to have 3-4 teammates who can spot up effectively. He has to be able to find them.

And I'm curious about his defense. His steals and blocks improved from his rookie year. Hopefully that continues. He has also shown flashes of terrific 1-on-1 defense, against both scrubs and elite players. But it's easier to play great defense for a possession or two. It's a lot harder to do it again and again and again over 35+ minutes every game. It is going to take work to see him continue to be an effective defender.
Summary

Enes Kanter will be one of the most important players on the Utah Jazz this year. Kanter's ability to help the Jazz be as good as possible lay in the following eight key areas:

    Maintaining both good shooting percentages AND smart distribution of shot locations
    The Trey Burke effect getting assisted close shots
    Increase in assists as he finds spot-up shooters and cutters off double-teams
    Maintaining his improved steal and block rates
    Cutting the turnovers
    Maintaining his strong 1-on-1 defense over 35+ minutes vs. 15 minutes
    A return to his rookie defensive rebounding rate
    The 3-point shot

As many have already said, I'm so excited to see what Enes Kanter turns out to be next year. Very good appears to be his absolute floor.

[nickagneta]

I think Bogut is the first of a bunch of players that might be selected this round that have mid 2nd round or higher talent if healthy but never seem to be healthy. If Bogut is healthy, and he appeared to be making strides towards that end at the end of last year, its a great pick. Problem is come voting time, all one will here is "Bogut is made of glass" and you have to overcome that. Yoki seemed to do okay with Bogut on his DKC team. In this exercise, we will see how well Bogut get received.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

He played a total of 44 games last year including playoffs, only 1109 minutes total.

Kyrie played 59, Dirk played 53, Wall played 49, Love played 18, Granger played 5 and Rose didn't play at all.

If we're going to use this argument, it better be used against these guys as well.

[Fafnir]

Gay is a very very good player and I like him so there! 

Seriously though. Memphis was pretty good with him and Zbo together last year and were right at the top of the league and in contender status.  After the trade they took a step back

After the trade they played their best basketball.

29 - 15 with him .659 win %   +3.93 point differential
27 - 11 without him .71 win % +4.39 point differential

[wdleehi]

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

He played a total of 44 games last year including playoffs, only 1109 minutes total.

Kyrie played 59, Dirk played 53, Wall played 49, Love played 18, Granger played 5 and Rose didn't play at all.

If we're going to use this argument, it better be used against these guys as well.

It's about the history. 

[rondoallaturca]

The first two picks of the 4th round are definitely shocking, for me at least.

Anyway, Lakers still looking to trade their 5.14 up into the 4th.

[Kane3387]

I think Bogut is the first of a bunch of players that might be selected this round that have mid 2nd round or higher talent if healthy but never seem to be healthy. If Bogut is healthy, and he appeared to be making strides towards that end at the end of last year, its a great pick. Problem is come voting time, all one will here is "Bogut is made of glass" and you have to overcome that. Yoki seemed to do okay with Bogut on his DKC team. In this exercise, we will see how well Bogut get received.

Just look up IPs arguments from two years ago Yoki.

[indeedproceed]

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

He played a total of 44 games last year including playoffs, only 1109 minutes total.

Kyrie played 59, Dirk played 53, Wall played 49, Love played 18, Granger played 5 and Rose didn't play at all.

If we're going to use this argument, it better be used against these guys as well.

Kyrie Irving's injury situation is actually a pretty stark contract against Andrew Bogut. The Cavs DIDN'T play him because they wanted to lose, even though he could play. The Warriors played Bogut because they wanted to win, even though he wasn't healthy.

[Evantime34]

I had Jordan as a pick in this round, I did not have Bogut as a pick in this round but to be fair this was more of an oversight on my part than an indication of his value. There are a few centers I would pick in front of both though.

[dark_lord]

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

He played a total of 44 games last year including playoffs, only 1109 minutes total.

Kyrie played 59, Dirk played 53, Wall played 49, Love played 18, Granger played 5 and Rose didn't play at all.

If we're going to use this argument, it better be used against these guys as well.

[nickagneta]

Didn't he miss a large portion of last year?

He played a total of 44 games last year including playoffs, only 1109 minutes total.

Kyrie played 59, Dirk played 53, Wall played 49, Love played 18, Granger played 5 and Rose didn't play at all.

If we're going to use this argument, it better be used against these guys as well.

Well played Yoki and I am sure come playoff time, if those players are in the playoffs, their competition will definitely be bringing those points up.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I think Bogut is the first of a bunch of players that might be selected this round that have mid 2nd round or higher talent if healthy but never seem to be healthy. If Bogut is healthy, and he appeared to be making strides towards that end at the end of last year, its a great pick. Problem is come voting time, all one will here is "Bogut is made of glass" and you have to overcome that. Yoki seemed to do okay with Bogut on his DKC team. In this exercise, we will see how well Bogut get received.

Yeah, and overlook the other "injury prone" guys in the process.

Bogut IS healthy, after he dealt with that setback from him coming back healthy, slowly but surely he showed what he can bring.

He fits well with Lillard and Monroe as well as he does not have to require a ton of touches, contented to playing defense and plays the high pick and roll very well.

[indeedproceed]

I think Bogut is the first of a bunch of players that might be selected this round that have mid 2nd round or higher talent if healthy but never seem to be healthy. If Bogut is healthy, and he appeared to be making strides towards that end at the end of last year, its a great pick. Problem is come voting time, all one will here is "Bogut is made of glass" and you have to overcome that. Yoki seemed to do okay with Bogut on his DKC team. In this exercise, we will see how well Bogut get received.

Just look up IPs arguments from two years ago Yoki.

3 years wasn't it?

Basically look at 2010. Andrew Bogut was an elite franchise level player in 2010.